Official Gold & Silver Price Thread 1 1

[GoldFinger1969]

Couldn't find a thread talking about the prices for the 2 key metals so voila !  

Here's an interesting article from BARRON'S from a few weeks ago on silver's outlook, pretty bullish:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/silver-prices-bargain-51632996001

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

That’s a shocker. It seems Barrons is ALWAYS bullish on metals. Even at market tops. May as well ask Robert Kiyosaki.

Edited October 24, 2021 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/24/2021 at 12:08 PM, VKurtB said:

That’s a shocker. It seems Barrons is ALWAYS bullish on metals. Even at market tops. May as well ask Robert Kiyosaki.

It's not BARRON'S it's the folks quoted in the column.  I can rarely recall BARRON'S plugging precious metals as an investment other than as insurance and I've been reading them 36 years.

[VKurtB]

By the time people start pumping up metals with articles, it’s already too late. Metals are a 90/10 play. They gradually decline 90% of the time, and run up fast 10% of the time. Unless it’s 95/5 or 98/2. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by VKurtB

[World Colonial]

Last time I checked, silver spreads were still awful.  Not as bad as earlier post-COVID but still higher than I recall previously for a long time.  By a long time, probably excluding when spot was below $5 or near it.

Someone has got to be a die hard bull to be willing to immediately accept a 20%+ "paper" loss out of the gate.

[Alex in PA.]

Now on KitCo   Gold = $1808.40    Silver = $24.61

At Pinehurst Coin:   AGE BU = $1,916.85

                                         ASE = Type 1  $40.34

                                                    Type 2  $36.34

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[World Colonial]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:36 PM, Alex in PA. said:

Now on KitCo   Gold = $1808.40    Silver = $24.61

At Pinehurst Coin:   AGE BU = $1,916.85

                                         ASE = Type 1  $40.34

                                                    Type 2  $36.34

 

I mostly check golddealer.com.  Lowest spread I saw was about $4.50 between "bid" and "ask", but wasn't 2021 ASE.

[VKurtB]

I read that Rosland Capital has a 30% buy/sell spread IF you leave your metals with them!!! They charge extra “fees”, in addition to shipping, if you want to hold the metals. Yeah, I gotzta get me summa dat action, mmm, mmm, mmm. Bullion “investing” is a scam.

Edited October 25, 2021 by VKurtB

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:51 PM, VKurtB said:

IF you leave your metals with them!!!

I do not believe I would like that.  Like William DeVane - I like the feel of gold.  

[VKurtB]

On 10/25/2021 at 11:57 AM, Alex in PA. said:

I do not believe I would like that.  Like William DeVane - I like the feel of gold.  

And it’s the same company Devane shills for, too.

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:51 PM, VKurtB said:

Bullion “investing” is a scam.

I have to agree with you onn that.  I bought my stash of gold about 10 years before 9-11 and think I only added a couple ounces since then.  Also, I believe the uS Mint is a big partner is this bullion stuff.  

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:00 PM, VKurtB said:

And it’s the same company Devane shills for, too.

Sure is.  Every 3 hours on TV comes DeVane:  "I buy my gold from Rosland Capital; what you see is what you get!"  Just bend over sucker.  

Edited October 25, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[VKurtB]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:01 PM, Alex in PA. said:

I have to agree with you onn that.  I bought my stash of gold about 10 years before 9-11 and think I only added a couple ounces since then.  Also, I believe the uS Mint is a big partner is this bullion stuff.  

You misspelled co-conspirator.

[World Colonial]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:51 PM, VKurtB said:

I read that Rosland Capital has a 30% buy/sell spread IF you leave your metals with them!!! They charge extra “fees”, in addition to shipping, if you want to hold the metals. Yeah, I gotzta get me summa dat action, mmm, mmm, mmm. Bullion “investing” is a scam.

In the past at least, to my recollection the Perth Mint (parent company, not the marketing arm which most know) did not charge a mark-up for unfabricated metal which had to be stored with them.  It wasn't stated, but my assumption was/is that the buyer is actually providing inventory financing.  So the buyer owns it but since it's stored with them and unallocated, they use it until sold or delivery in coin form.

This was years before COVID but back then, the premiums were still stupidly high.

[Conder101]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:00 PM, VKurtB said:

And it’s the same company Devane shills for, too.

Well he likes the feel of ,,,, YOUR gold.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/25/2021 at 11:55 AM, World Colonial said:

Last time I checked, silver spreads were still awful.  Not as bad as earlier post-COVID but still higher than I recall previously for a long time.  By a long time, probably excluding when spot was below $5 or near it.

Someone has got to be a die hard bull to be willing to immediately accept a 20%+ "paper" loss out of the gate.

Wow, 20% spread between bid-ask ?

That would be like gold trading $500 higher to buy than to sell.  It's normally $20-$50 or so. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:51 PM, VKurtB said:

I read that Rosland Capital has a 30% buy/sell spread IF you leave your metals with them!!! They charge extra “fees”, in addition to shipping, if you want to hold the metals. Yeah, I gotzta get me summa dat action, mmm, mmm, mmm. Bullion “investing” is a scam.

What if you just buy gold coins from them -- bullion or numismatic?   How are their prices then ?

I remember the same stuff said about Blanchard and Monex in the 1980's and 1990's -- but for buying of individual or groups of coins, they weren't bad.  

[World Colonial]

On 10/25/2021 at 7:44 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Wow, 20% spread between bid-ask ?

That would be like gold trading $500 higher to buy than to sell.  It's normally $20-$50 or so. 

Yes, and that was "low", the lowest I remember for 1oz back to March 2020.  It's somewhat better for larger bars.

Gold has been in the $100 range for 1oz to my recollection, somewhat more per the prior post.  Definitely not less.

Let's face it, physical metal liquidity has declined substantially since COVID hit.  It's the best explanation fitting the data.

The metals are supposed to be liquid but aren't, relatively.  And to anticipate any reply, any one of us can sell plenty of other assets (including many coins owned by member here and PCGS) for a comparable spread to "market value".  It's easy enough to do - fast - if the price is reduced enough.

As one example, right now, unless you own a complete dump or it's in a place no one wants to live, housing has a better spread than silver.  If discounted, won't take long to sell either  About the only reason it takes longer to sell now is presumably title insurance.  You can waive the inspection and pay cash.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/25/2021 at 8:06 PM, World Colonial said:

As one example, right now, unless you own a complete dump or it's in a place no one wants to live, housing has a better spread than silver.  If discounted, won't take long to sell either  About the only reason it takes longer to sell now is presumably title insurance.  You can waive the inspection an pay cash.

I recall the spread for when I sold some gold last year wasn't too bad from my LCS.  I think he gave me the actual spot price -- and maybe buying was 4% higher.

As for real estate....friend of a friend owns a home on the Jersey Shore in a very exclusive community.  House is/was worth about $4 MM.  A few weeks ago some mega-bucks type knocks on their door (literally !) and offers $6 MM....cash....as is. 

They took the $$$. 

 

[VKurtB]

On 10/25/2021 at 7:22 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I recall the spread for when I sold some gold last year wasn't too bad from my LCS.  I think he gave me the actual spot price -- and maybe buying was 4% higher.

As for real estate....friend of a friend owns a home on the Jersey Shore in a very exclusive community.  House is/was worth about $4 MM.  A few weeks ago some mega-bucks type knocks on their door (literally !) and offers $6 MM....cash....as is. 

They took the $$$. 

 

If you’re seeing single digits for a buy/sell spread, you’ve found a unicorn! Over 25% is typical in the real world. It’s the single biggest reason precious metals suck as an investment. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

I have a great research piece on Gold pricing and factors affecting supply/demand, but we can't post PDFs here for some reason.  

Edited November 11, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

On 11/7/2021 at 3:28 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I have a great research piece on Gold pricing and factors affecting supply/demand, but we can't post PDFs here for som reason.  

Like every other asset, it's ultimately psychological.  No one can support the current market price of any asset based upon the so-called "fundamentals" because the outcome isn't based upon a formula.

We can only compare relative prices over time versus other assets.  This tells us whether the asset is relatively cheap or expensive but nothing more.  This should be evident given current valuations which should make it obvious that today's environment is the biggest aggregate bubble in the history of civilization.

For gold, any attempt to measure valuation by its utility is also destined to fail.  The psychological component comes from it's role as a monetary substitute.

Concurrently, this doesn't mean that just because of unprecedented "printing", that gold is currently "cheap" or destined to head "to the moon" either.  The ultimate purpose of money isn't to acquire other forms of money (gold for fiat currency) but tangible goods and services that people need and want.

By this standard, gold isn't cheap but on balance, expensive.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/7/2021 at 12:03 PM, World Colonial said:

Like every other asset, it's ultimately psychological.  No one can support the current market price of any asset based upon the so-called "fundamentals" because the outcome isn't based upon a formula.  We can only compare relative prices over time versus other assets.  This tells us whether the asset is relatively cheap or expensive but nothing more.  This should be evident given current valuations which should make it obvious that today's environment is the biggest aggregate bubble in the history of civilization.  For gold, any attempt to measure valuation by its utility is also destined to fail.  The psychological component comes from it's role as a monetary substitute.  Concurrently, this doesn't mean that just because of unprecedented "printing", that gold is currently "cheap" or destined to head "to the moon" either.  The ultimate purpose of money isn't to acquire other forms of money (gold for fiat currency) but tangible goods and services that people need and want.  By this standard, gold isn't cheap but on balance, expensive.

Gold's traditional hedge as a store of value has been eroded by liquid capital markets, the bond markeet, and even BitCoin.

In 1979, both the gold COMEX market and daily FOREX traded about 1 billion dollars daily.  Gold trades $50-$75 billion daily nowadays....and the daily foreign exchange market trades about $5 trillion daily !! 

[World Colonial]

On 11/11/2021 at 12:16 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Gold's traditional hedge as a store of value has been eroded by liquid capital markets, the bond markeet, and even BitCoin.

In 1979, both the gold COMEX market and daily FOREX traded about 1 billion dollars daily.  Gold trades $50-$75 billion daily nowadays....and the daily foreign exchange market trades about $5 trillion daily !! 

Your 1979 FOREX data must be off or you are comparing two different sources.  No way FOREX volume was only $1B daily.  It must have been almost entirely off exchanges at the time.

There is some displacement as you indicate, but it's not remotely reflected in the numbers you gave.  The increase is mostly if not almost entirely for speculation or commercial transactions such as hedging debt exposure.

In many countries, residents hold USD currency notes as a store of value and since it circulates parallel to the local currency.  This was true in Argentina  in the early 90's when the currency board was in place.  USD notes also circulated in Bolivia on my visits up to 2007 but since then, have not seen it even once.  The Boliviano has been stable at about 7:1 since then.

Non-US residents in developing countries also tend to have most of their financial assets in one of the "hard" currencies.  Local capital markets are usually relatively illiquid and it's also done for geographic/political diversification.  Or, they own foreign real estate.  What they own locally is held in a private business or real estate.

If you are rich in a country like Colombia where my sister and her husband live, the financial markets are presumably mostly for institutions, though many shares and bonds are listed on foreign exchanges too (maybe most).  This is my inference and my brother-in-law (who is from there) agreed with me.  That's why Miami is the financial capital of Latin America, maybe along with NY.

Outside of metal bugs and coin collectors, I doubt very many developed world residents own physical gold or silver.  To the extent they do, it's overwhelmingly immaterial.  Most metal bugs and coin collectors don't own material amounts either.

In the developing world, I know both are owned as jewelry but it's impractical to own as coin collectors do in the US.  It's not readily available in coin and bar form, certainly in any quantity, it's presumably (noticeably) less liquid with wider buy-sell spreads and it's a high(er) risk proposition to store and transport.  I'd also question whether it can usually be insured, at all.

I did see an advertisement in the LaPaz or Santa Cruz airport (in Bolivia) for a gold storage program on my recent visits, so maybe it's somewhat more available now than I believe or it used to be. 

I don't know what locals think of it but see no purpose in it. I'd own it elsewhere as I have no interest and see no advantage in storing metals in a country like that.. 

[numisport]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:00 PM, VKurtB said:

And it’s the same company Devane shills for, too.

Devane's coins have finger prints and rub on a lot of them. Somebody should tell him that he is mishandling his gold and silver 

[RWB]

RE: "Gold & Silver Price Thread"

Did anyone respond with the current price of silver or gold thread?

[VKurtB]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:25 PM, RWB said:

RE: "Gold & Silver Price Thread"

Did anyone respond with the current price of silver or gold thread?

Which current prices? I have an auto screensaver (for my Mac) that tracks the Kitco quotes, as if they have any relevance at all.

[zadok]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:57 PM, VKurtB said:

Which current prices? I have an auto screensaver (for my Mac) that tracks the Kitco quotes, as if they have any relevance at all.

...no "thread" as in the emperor's clothes.......

[VKurtB]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:05 PM, zadok said:

...no "thread" as in the emperor's clothes.......

Ohhhhhhhhh, comin’ off a spooooool thread.

[Revenant]

On 10/25/2021 at 9:28 PM, VKurtB said:

If you’re seeing single digits for a buy/sell spread, you’ve found a unicorn! Over 25% is typical in the real world. It’s the single biggest reason precious metals suck as an investment. 

Pre covid it was pretty easy to get sub 10% premium over spot. Now it's crazy.