For Sale: 2020 W V75 West Point Washington Quarter Tallgrass Prairie NGC MS67 0

[TopPopLowMintage]

2020 W V75 West Point Washington Quarter Kansas Tallgrass Prairie

*taking this off the market; will be cracking this out and sending to PCGS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by TopPopLowMintage
taking this off the market

[Coinbuf]

There are two of these on ebay right now for $600, and another three jokers asking between $600 and $800ish for MS67's.    You had better get realistic with your price, this is not etsy the members here are collectors and dealers that know the market.   If your goal is to make a name for yourself as a fair and honest seller your not off to a very good start.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Coinbuf

[GBrad]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:26 PM, Coinbuf said:

There are two of these on ebay right now for $600, and another three jokers asking between $600 and $800ish for MS67's.    You had better get realistic with your price, this is not etsy the members here are collectors and dealers that know the market.   If your goal is to make a name for yourself as a fair and honest seller your not off to a very good start.

I totally agree with @Coinbuf here. I truly hope you had a major brain fart when typing your listed price which evidently caused an error between your mind, synaptic responses and ultimately your fingers while typing…….. Surely the 1, preceding the 7, was an honest mistake……

[TopPopLowMintage]

I set the price at $1750 since I saw one sell at that price 1-2 months ago and prices were on an uptrend. Looks like the market has dropped on these.

I see how this selling game works. It just takes one seller to decide to undercut the other sellers and price his/hers lower than everyone else. This puts pressure on the other sellers to lower their price. Those other sellers don't become 'jokers'. I think all or most here have experience being undercut.

If other sellers hold the line, then it'll just be that one seller who sells low. I don't want to undercut other sellers and prefer to keep my price at the higher end of the range.

GBrad - I don't need your condescending remarks.

Is this the culture of this forum - allowing or tolerating members insulting other members?

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

Modern U.S. coinage typically follows a pattern, a mad dash in the beginning to acquire coins at an incredibly inflated price followed by a decline, sometimes a gradual decline sometimes sharp. At any rate, I don't think it's under cutting more just people getting out and selling while the selling is still good. The V75's have been out for a while now and were hoarded, as more are submitted and are graded at 67 (which there will be) the price will continue to fall. Right now $550 - $600 seems to be the FMV, if you want to hold to your current price, up to you, but expect to sit on it for quite awhile unless some unknowledgeable individual comes along and randomly buys it out of the blue.

I don't know if you found this in the wild and submitted or not but assuming you did, asking $1750 and complaining about now only being able to sell it for $600, well, not may people are going to be sympathetic to your plea of undercutting.

[Morpheus1967]

On 10/27/2021 at 2:33 PM, TopPopLowMintage said:

I set the price at $1750 since I saw one sell at that price 1-2 months ago and prices were on an uptrend. Looks like the market has dropped on these.

 

Not sure where you saw that, as I went back 2 months on ebay sold items, and there was nothing remotely close to that price.  And in fact, the last one that sold in the same slab as above sold for $410.  The one before that $390.  

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/27/2021 at 2:33 PM, TopPopLowMintage said:

Is this the culture of this forum - allowing or tolerating members insulting other members?

 

I don't, nor does it appear any other members, see an insult.  Sleepy Hollow is not the place for sensitive people.  Do like everyone else and don't take yourself so seriously.  It was that price you stated that has everyone confused.  Did you not do your research before coming to a conclusion.  very easy to research on EBay.  Cheers.

[Coinbuf]

This has so many red flags its scary, I hope that NGC deletes this thread and the op along with it.   Time for you to return to etsy op.

[GBrad]

On 10/27/2021 at 2:33 PM, TopPopLowMintage said:

GBrad - I don't need your condescending remarks.

@TopPopLowMintage I, and I feel confident in saying our members here on the forum, don't need ridiculous and exorbitantly priced coins advertised here that are worth 1/3 of your asking price.  

[VKurtB]

Add my voice to the complainant list. You are a con man, OP.

[VKurtB]

On 10/27/2021 at 1:33 PM, TopPopLowMintage said:

I set the price at $1750 since I saw one sell at that price 1-2 months ago and prices were on an uptrend. Looks like the market has dropped on these.

I see how this selling game works. It just takes one seller to decide to undercut the other sellers and price his/hers lower than everyone else. This puts pressure on the other sellers to lower their price. Those other sellers don't become 'jokers'. I think all or most here have experience being undercut.

If other sellers hold the line, then it'll just be that one seller who sells low. I don't want to undercut other sellers and prefer to keep my price at the higher end of the range.

GBrad - I don't need your condescending remarks.

Is this the culture of this forum - allowing or tolerating members insulting other members?

 

Yes, it is the culture here when encountering a con man.

[TopPopLowMintage]

I am attaching photos of the sold listings on eBay that I saw for these W quarters. They're from a video that I saw online. That video was posted sometime in August and I saw it sometime in early-mid September. These sold prices are around $1700 with the highest at $2500.
 

Edited October 31, 2021 by TopPopLowMintage

[TopPopLowMintage]

 

 

Here's another one that sold at $2500.

[TopPopLowMintage]

Fenntucky Mike - thank you for the market insight. That does look like the case with modern U.S. coinage as they're new & fresh with new additions being still actively submitted and graded, causing the population to increase at a fast pace VS old coins whose prices have settled over the decades and not having spikes in population growth, unless there's a hoard found.

I'm wondering why the visceral reaction to the price. It's like these trolls are emotionally attached to a coin's pricing. Just say that the price is too high or above market but don't attack or insult the seller especially if the price is well within the sold range in the past few months.

GBrad,VKurtB,Coinbuf - you guys are trolls and are harming the hobby and industry by turning off new members. I've only been here a couple of weeks and instead of being welcoming & helpful, you guys are accusatory, hostile and off-putting.

VKurtB:
You're claiming that someone with a year of experience in coin collecting posts a listing for an NGC holdered coin with full photos and cert number is conning people with decades of experience collecting coins? You posted that same statement twice. That's abusive, harassing, & defamatory. I have posted photos of the sold listings on eBay with prices at par or even higher than mine. I know you're not going to do this but how about calling out all those eBay sellers who sold these W quarters for similar or even higher prices than my listed price.

Here are the terms-of-use and rules for these boards:

Board Guidelines
These boards are meant to be an open and positive environment for the discussion of issues. As such, we encourage a free exchange of ideas and comments; however, participation on these boards is meant to be a positive experience for everyone.

6. Your Conduct.
You explicitly agree, in using this web site or any service provided, that you shall not:

(a) provide any Content or perform any conduct that may be unlawful, illegal, threatening, harmful, abusive, harassing, stalking, tortuous, defamatory, libelous, vulgar, obscene, offensive, objectionable, pornographic, designed to or does interfere or interrupt this web site or any service provided, infected with a virus or other destructive or deleterious programming routine, give rise to civil or criminal liability, or which may violate an applicable local, national or international law;

You guys are thumbing your nose at these rules and I have reported your troll posts.

[GBrad]

On 10/31/2021 at 12:58 PM, TopPopLowMintage said:

GBrad,VKurtB,Coinbuf - you guys are trolls and are harming the hobby and industry by turning off new members. I've only been here a couple of weeks and instead of being welcoming & helpful, you guys are accusatory, hostile and off-putting.

 

On 10/31/2021 at 12:58 PM, TopPopLowMintage said:

6. Your Conduct.
You explicitly agree, in using this web site or any service provided, that you shall not:

(a) provide any Content or perform any conduct that may be unlawful, illegal, threatening, harmful, abusive, harassing, stalking, tortuous, defamatory, libelous, vulgar, obscene, offensive, objectionable, pornographic, designed to or does interfere or interrupt this web site or any service provided, infected with a virus or other destructive or deleterious programming routine, give rise to civil or criminal liability, or which may violate an applicable local, national or international law;

You guys are thumbing your nose at these rules and I have reported your troll posts.

Hello sir, or madam, I haven't viewed your profile nor will I.  Just for the record, I would like to point out one important thing here Mr. or Mrs. TopPop.  I believe you are in strict violation of Rule 6.(a) yourself, 'Your Conduct'.  You have intentionally, with malice aforethought, defamed and created slander and libel against VKurtB, Coinbuf and I.  You intentionally, and blatantly, accused us of harming the hobby and industry, with no grounds in which to do so, and further have no evidence in which to prove your allegations. These accusations can, and have the propensity to, detrimentally affect the livelihood of those actively involved (meaning VKurtB, Coinbuf and I) in the field of Numismatics who depend on our knowledge, customer relationships, and coin sales as a means of valuable and important income in which to provide for, and support, our families.  You further called us "trolls" and "hostile".  As a personal victim of severe Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (otherwise known as PTSD), your unfounded comment(s) have deeply hurt me, discouraged me, and have more importantly set me back from what small amount of progress I have made in the past three years after spending countless dollars of my own money on therapy and counseling which insurance does not cover.  In addition, please allow me to introduce subsection (a) of the Rules for your reference: "a) provide any Content or perform any conduct that may be unlawful, illegal, threatening, harmful, abusive, harassing,".  Mr. or Mrs. TopPop, I truly hope you feel good about yourself by purportedly turning us in to the NGC administrators for our "troll posts" which, I would like to further add, is without a doubt defamation of character. If this brings you solitude, and makes you feel like you have accomplished something, then by all means congratulations.  I would like to offer you one bit of advice here. In the future and going forward, I would be very careful what you post on whatever website, social media outlet, etc. you may be on.  In all reality, the accusations you have made here are illegal.  

[Morpheus1967]

On 10/31/2021 at 12:58 PM, TopPopLowMintage said:

You guys are thumbing your nose at these rules and I have reported your troll posts.

 

[Coinbuf]

@TopPopLowMintage throughout this entire thread you have shown a complete inability (or is it on purpose) to understand the modern coin market.   The PCGS examples you recently posted in any attempt to prove your point only reinforce this, the market does not value coins in NGC plastic vs PCGS plastic the same all the time.    Many times PCGS coins sell for more and then sometimes the opposite is true and NGC coins sell for more.   Much of this disparity revolves around the PCGS exclusive registry which requires the participants there to have all their coin in PCGS plastic.   As of today the PCGS pop for this coin is 70 with 2 + and one higher, compared to the NGC pop of 205 with 3 higher (bty you still have this info wrong in your op).   So NGC has almost 3 times as many 67 graded examples on the market than PCGS, the very simple law of supply and demand is what has the prices for NGC graded 67's depressed vs the PCGS graded coins not some tin foil hat conspiracy theory of undercutting.

This information took me all of 3 minutes to gather and post yet it appears that you did not do any due diligence to understand where the market is now and what market dynamics are in play before you posted your ad.

I see that you have lowered your price, I still think your well over the market and your choice of payment options and the way you have approached this whole event is still blasting red flags but its your coin and you can ask what you want.   I hope you enjoy that coin because I think you are going to own it for a very long time given your asking price and I don't imagine too many that would want to deal with you given your attitude.

If I were you I would send it to PCGS as a crossover, if your able to get it into PCGS plastic at the 67 grade then you would have a much better chance of getting your original asking price.    As a seller knowing the market is key to successful marketing.

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/31/2021 at 12:45 PM, TopPopLowMintage said:

They're from a video that I saw online.

Got a link to this video.  I, myself, would like to view it.

[Mohawk]

On 11/1/2021 at 4:20 PM, Alex in PA. said:

Got a link to this video.  I, myself, would like to view it.

Indeed.....

[VKurtB]

On 10/31/2021 at 11:58 AM, TopPopLowMintage said:

Fenntucky Mike - thank you for the market insight. That does look like the case with modern U.S. coinage as they're new & fresh with new additions being still actively submitted and graded, causing the population to increase at a fast pace VS old coins whose prices have settled over the decades and not having spikes in population growth, unless there's a hoard found.

I'm wondering why the visceral reaction to the price. It's like these trolls are emotionally attached to a coin's pricing. Just say that the price is too high or above market but don't attack or insult the seller especially if the price is well within the sold range in the past few months.

GBrad,VKurtB,Coinbuf - you guys are trolls and are harming the hobby and industry by turning off new members. I've only been here a couple of weeks and instead of being welcoming & helpful, you guys are accusatory, hostile and off-putting.

VKurtB:
You're claiming that someone with a year of experience in coin collecting posts a listing for an NGC holdered coin with full photos and cert number is conning people with decades of experience collecting coins? You posted that same statement twice. That's abusive, harassing, & defamatory. I have posted photos of the sold listings on eBay with prices at par or even higher than mine. I know you're not going to do this but how about calling out all those eBay sellers who sold these W quarters for similar or even higher prices than my listed price.

Here are the terms-of-use and rules for these boards:

Board Guidelines
These boards are meant to be an open and positive environment for the discussion of issues. As such, we encourage a free exchange of ideas and comments; however, participation on these boards is meant to be a positive experience for everyone.

6. Your Conduct.
You explicitly agree, in using this web site or any service provided, that you shall not:

(a) provide any Content or perform any conduct that may be unlawful, illegal, threatening, harmful, abusive, harassing, stalking, tortuous, defamatory, libelous, vulgar, obscene, offensive, objectionable, pornographic, designed to or does interfere or interrupt this web site or any service provided, infected with a virus or other destructive or deleterious programming routine, give rise to civil or criminal liability, or which may violate an applicable local, national or international law;

You guys are thumbing your nose at these rules and I have reported your troll posts.

NONE of your examples show sales. They are “asks”. I am stating here I believe they are shill sales, made to an accomplice. And they are waaaaaay out of line, which is why they haven’t sold in the real market. Anyone can ask anything, and on Etsy they surely do. Recently eBay has also been infected with pie in the sky ridiculous ask prices, and you are emulating them. You are into the “one or two suckers and I can make a killing” section of this hobby. Congratulations. You are a con man. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by VKurtB

[Vess1]

On 10/30/2021 at 7:12 PM, VKurtB said:

Add my voice to the complainant list. You are a con man, OP.

 

   Lmao.   I hope I get the chance to meet you some day Kurt.   You're always posting something that makes me lol.  

[Vess1]

  Those are all PCGS slabs in those auctions.    Depending on the coin and grade, some people are willing to pay much higher premiums depending on the TPG.  I don't know if that's the case here and i'm not doubting NGC's ability to grade a modern quarter in MS67 properly but some people do.     Just want to make a note of that.    These are inevitably going to drop in value as they've only been out for a couple years.  More will be found and the population will be diluted as time goes on.    

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2021 at 9:24 PM, Vess1 said:

  Those are all PCGS slabs in those auctions.    Depending on the coin and grade, some people are willing to pay much higher premiums depending on the TPG.  I don't know if that's the case here and i'm not doubting NGC's ability to grade a modern quarter in MS67 properly but some people do.     Just want to make a note of that.    These are inevitably going to drop in value as they've only been out for a couple years.  More will be found and the population will be diluted as time goes on.    

PCGS shmeeCGS. On moderns generally, NGC prices often run higher. This is pure pie in the sky trying to make a killing con man BS, nothing more.

Edited November 4, 2021 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2021 at 9:17 PM, Vess1 said:

 

   Lmao.   I hope I get the chance to meet you some day Kurt.   You're always posting something that makes me lol.  

I get to most major coin shows and I am not a recluse. I can usually be found at exhibits or seminars, not so much walking the bourse. Some, but I’m a fast browser, except if some of my favorite world coins dealers are there. I’m a BIIIIG fan of Allen Berman, the King of Bermania.

Edited November 5, 2021 by VKurtB

[Six Mile Rick]

TopPopLowMintage,

 I see nothing wrong with your asking price. Yes it is sky high but that is your decision. It is your coin.

Enjoy listing the coin till a few more are made. The others in this post complaining about your price sound like a bunch of old hens cackling on.

Good Luck!!  

[TopPopLowMintage]

Coinbuf - I know that I should have done more research and spent more time on pricing this. I knew that these W quarters have been selling for thousands of dollars since they first came out in 2019 and watching that video made me think that these prices were holding up, even going up. I was expecting some market feedback on the price but not such a negative reaction. Thanks for pointing out these market nuances. I will send this to PCGS for a crossover. I actually have some NGC slabs I was planning on sending to them and will add this to that group. As of now, this coin is off the market.

Alex:
That video is by a Youtuber named BlueRidgeSilverHound. He posted it around Aug 18 or so.

VKurtB:
Those ARE sales. They are 'Sold Listings' and all say 'Sold' and right beside it, the date they sold. I will say this: on closer inspection, they are all 'Buy It Now' or 'Best Offer' sales and there is a possibility that they could be shill sales as you say. One is a 'Best Offer Accepted' which I don't think is a shill sale but who knows.

You keep accusing me of being a 'con man'. I get that you're trying to pick on the new guy, but what do you think of the guys on CoinTV? They probably have more experience than you, especially Rick Tomaska. Have you spoken out against them? There are people - including other coin dealers - who think their coins are overpriced. 

In any case, I think it's a ridiculous claim. The members of this forum have way more experience and market info than me and are not 'suckers' as you say. You've lost credibility by claiming this. 

Six Mile Rick - thank you for the kind words and support! I guess I ruffled some feathers with my pricing, resulting in all this cackling  

For anyone who cares about pricing, I've done some research on this and it seems like pricing is a big problem in the industry and one of the reasons why buyers would think that sellers are trying to 'con' them. There can be 50-100% difference between two pricing sources.

Here are the top sources of pricing from what I gather:
- NGC Price Guide
- PCGS Price Guide
- eBay Sold Listings
- Greysheet
- Redbook
- Heritage Auctions auction archives
- Great Collections auction archives

They all have their downsides. The NGC and PCGS Price Guides are not accurate or up-to-date. eBay Sold Listings may be done by 'shills'. Greysheet also not accurate or up-to-date. And the HA and GC auction archives usually has auction results from years ago.

And on those eBay shills - they can work both ways. Some may want to raise the price but others may want to lower the price.

I think the HA and GC auctions as well as eBay Sold Listings if done by pure auction with multiple bids and bidders and done within the past week is probably the most up-to-date reflection of the current market BUT with eBay, this is not always available as there's a lot of 'Buy It Now' or 'Best Offer' sales done. 

If you're selling a coin, do you only look at pure auction results to price your coin? To anyone who has sold coins here - how did you price your coins?

As I write this, there are Sold listings right now on eBay for this coin with one sold at $410.50 and another at $689.95 and another listed at $699.95 but sold at 'Best offer accepted' - all NGC. A PCGS one sold for $840.00 back in September while the same one only sold for $575 in a Great Collections auction in August. There are two active listings for PCGS slabs at $1,249.95 or Best Offer.

On the NGC coins alone there is a 100% difference. The NGC Price Guide for this says $800 while the PCGS Price Guide says $1500. What complicates things is that these two price guides reference HA or GC auctions which are for coins in either of these companies' slabs.

Prices are all over the place. I'd rather start high then lower the price as more information comes in. At some point, price discovery happens. This is the natural way markets work. I like the Dutch Reverse auction style where the price starts at the high price the seller determines and goes down until someone does a 'buy' at the quoted price.

Here are some videos I found on industry pricing issues from actual dealers:

"Coin Price Guides are messed up" by CoinHelpU posted two days ago on Nov 5, 2021

"Coin theory, Coin Grading" by TheCoinGeek posted back in Mar 2019 *he gets more into this towards the end

Sorry but I don't have links as I watch these videos on the YT app on my TV.
 

[VKurtB]

Yes, Rick Tomaska is a con man too. He also wrote and photographed some very nice books. But now he’s a con man. 
 

I buy by TRADITIONAL auction, in person. The nutty ask is first, then it goes down, down, down to ridiculously low levels. Then sometimes it comes up; sometimes it doesn’t. If it doesn’t much, then I bid. Otherwise the owner of the coins can eat them for breakfast. That’s my method. It’s only a seller’s market if I play by the seller’s rules. I don’t and I won’t. I seldom pay more than 40-45% under retail price guides, and I get all the coins I can afford. I’ve found that people who hold coins tend to overuse credit and are leveraged out the wazoo. Their credit card bill’s due date is my best friend.

By the way, in numismatics, YouTube is a cesspool of misinformation. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by VKurtB