1922 low relief sand blasted peace dollar is there such a thing 0

[Bradley44]

Would like to have some information about these types of coins an also would like to ask does die Marks on a coin authenticate that coin.

[Woods020]

Welcome to the forum Bradley. To save you some time please post clear pictures front and back of the coin in question. Luckily the foremost authority on Peace Dollars (RWB) is an active member. I will say prepare to be told this is a common 1922 peace dollar but you never know. 

[RWB]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:52 AM, Bradley44 said:

Would like to have some information about these types of coins an also would like to ask does die Marks on a coin authenticate that coin.

There is such a critter. There are also published and unpubished ways to identify them. Sharp photos of both sides will be helpful.

[Greenstang]

I believe when they say "sandblasting", they are referring to the 1922 Low Relief Matte Finish which had the dies sandblasted to produce the matte finish.

 

1922 Low Relief Matte Finish

[RWB]

Sandbasted is the correct term. It states what was done, and was in common use until Wally Breen got loose.

Edited October 6, 2021 by RWB

[GBrad]

On 10/6/2021 at 5:02 PM, RWB said:

Sandbasted is the correct term. It states what was done, and was in common use until Wally Breen got loose.

Very interesting RWB.  Just to make sure here, you meant to spell it as "Sandbasted" without the l in basted which would otherwise make it read 'blasted' with the l? Used in context such as, "I basted a turkey"?  I'm serious here, just trying to learn.  Thanks.

[RWB]

Typo -- "sandblasted" or "sandblast" ---

This was normal for medals, and used on Saint-Gaudens/Pratt gold and 1921-1922 proof Peace dollars to emphasize the "medallic-style" design. It was also used on many commemorative halves for the same reason....that is, emphasis of design.

The term "matte" is better applied to Lincoln and Buffalo proofs to 1916 where the dies were sandblasted. It was simply impractical to individually treat thousands of small coins.

In any case, collectors did not like the effect and preferred brilliant mirror-like proofs.

Edited October 6, 2021 by RWB

[Woods020]

I am curious to see pictures. I have a feeling we may not. Seems like someone finds either a “22 high relief” or a matte finish about once a month on this forum. 

[Mohawk]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:07 PM, Woods020 said:

I am curious to see pictures. I have a feeling we may not. Seems like someone finds either a “22 high relief” or a matte finish about once a month on this forum. 

That's so true......pictures would be interesting given the nature of inquiry, but I'm not holding my breath.  A lot of this kind of thing turns up here, as you said, and none have ever lived up to their billing.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Mohawk

[RWB]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:52 AM, Bradley44 said:

Would like to have some information about these types of coins an also would like to ask does die Marks on a coin authenticate that coin.

Photos?

[Conder101]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:07 PM, Woods020 said:

Seems like someone finds either a “22 high relief” or a matte finish about once a month on this forum. 

And none of them turn out to be the real thing.

[RWB]

On 10/13/2021 at 3:22 PM, Conder101 said:

And none of them turn out to be the real thing.

....same with "1964-D Peace dollars."

[Bradley44]

On 10/6/2021 at 8:53 AM, Woods020 said:

Welcome to the forum Bradley. To save you some time please post clear pictures front and back of the coin in question. Luckily the foremost authority on Peace Dollars (RWB) is an active member. I will say prepare to be told this is a common 1922 peace dollar but you never know. 

I have good pictures of coin but not at moment just one that won't do much justice. My grandfather was in world war 2 an was an avid coin collector and left a few grand kids his collection which was only bout 20 rare coins that he had collected over some years. This coin shares the same diagnostics as the matte finish as the same die Marks I've studied more than I care to admit. The coin is like a wet to the touch feeling in hand an I've compared to countless peace dollar's of all years an none resemble this coins characteristic. I know it's a long shot but you just never know what the mint done in those days. I've had two experts look at this coin an said it has the same characteristics as the matte finish and others said no an I get it cause it's that hard to believe. I firmly believe if it's not one of original I believe it was struck by one of the dies which struck one of the matte proofs which would still make it an error coin.

[Bradley44]

On 10/6/2021 at 4:49 PM, Greenstang said:

I believe when they say "sandblasting", they are referring to the 1922 Low Relief Matte Finish which had the dies sandblasted to produce the matte finish.

 

1922 Low Relief Matte Finish

Here is only pic I have at moment. I have many more but at moment I'm trying to retrieve from old phone. My grandfather was in world war 2 an was an avid coin collector who left a few of his collection to us grandchildren. A regular ole peace dollar I'm not sure he would jus leave just saying. Grandfather took his collection very seriously and just didn't collect any ole coin.

[Bradley44]

On the reverse it has the exact same split in the beak of the eagle. It also has the same streak across the right shoulder of the eagle which is a key die mark. The details are really sharp on obverse and reverse of the coin. In has a smokey grey metallic matte finish look to the coin no mint luster at all. Smokey grey patina an in the dark with nice lighting it glitters like something outta a story book I have to say. One of the most beautiful coins I've ever seen. 

[RWB]

Bradley44 - You will need to post high quality photos of the coin to begin with...old 'phone camera photos are unlikely to be of any value. Also, the individual proof coins were sandblasted NOT the dies.

Low relief proof 1922 dollars were made on a medal press in February to provide approval samples for mint and treasury officers, and sculptor James Fraser who was advising them. There are several characteristics that have been in my books and other published material...and there are others that are reserved for authentication purposes and not public knowledge.

RE: "I've had two experts look at this coin an said it has the same characteristics as the matte finish and others said no an I get it cause it's that hard to believe." I understand your comment; however, there are only a handful of collectors or dealers in the country who have personally examined a 1922 LR proof, so it's likely neither was really "expert."

Looking forward to seeing good photos.

 

[Bradley44]

On 10/15/2021 at 3:27 PM, RWB said:

Bradley44 - You will need to post high quality photos of the coin to begin with...old 'phone camera photos are unlikely to be of any value. Also, the individual proof coins were sandblasted NOT the dies.

Low relief proof 1922 dollars were made on a medal press in February to provide approval samples for mint and treasury officers, and sculptor James Fraser who was advising them. There are several characteristics that have been in my books and other published material...and there are others that are reserved for authentication purposes and not public knowledge.

RE: "I've had two experts look at this coin an said it has the same characteristics as the matte finish and others said no an I get it cause it's that hard to believe." I understand your comment; however, there are only a handful of collectors or dealers in the country who have personally examined a 1922 LR proof, so it's likely neither was really "expert."

Looking forward to seeing good photos.

 

I'm in total agreement with you about the pictures. I just posted this for the heck of it. Its gonna be a few weeks for I can send Quality photos that are presentable. Do you have any Quality pictures of the 1922 low relief matte proof by chance. Be really cool to see.

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:36 PM, Bradley44 said:

1922 low relief matte proof by chance. Be really cool to see.

We had a post not so long ago by an NGC expert on finding new varieties of coins unexpectedly.  So Mr. Bradley44 - there is always hope.   

[Bradley44]

As I understand these particular coins are not shiny correct. Can you tell me about them as far as die Marks an such. I know a lot of experts and such talk about in there books and things about these coins an I get it believe me. Why my grandfather collected this particular coin is a mystery still. I've had a guy outta Pennsylvania that authenticates foriegn coins fake currency an has many American coins as well the whole Morgan collection as some. He said the diagnostics of my coin matched that of the matte proof low relief but that's just one opinion as I know. Also on business peace dollar's the lettering is more thicker on all the lettering. The R on dollar is even flattened out at the end an the business strikes are bold an thick at the end of the R. The lettering definitely matches the lettering of the matte proof  though. I've looked over an over at my 22 compared to the matte proof on NGCs coin site an it matches the coin absolutely perfectly. I've even had this coin graded by some dealers and they graded at AU58 an I thought to myself if so would not the hair on liberty be flattened an so forth. The sharpness of this coin is next to none an really has me scratching my head. An as I said it may not be one original that was meant to be matte proof but I'm believing if not then I think it was struck by one of the dies after the fact or something cause it looks so much like the matte proof. I've looked at countless graded an ungraded peace dollar's an none that I've seen resemble this coin in its entirety.

[Bradley44]

On 10/15/2021 at 3:27 PM, RWB said:

Bradley44 - You will need to post high quality photos of the coin to begin with...old 'phone camera photos are unlikely to be of any value. Also, the individual proof coins were sandblasted NOT the dies.

Low relief proof 1922 dollars were made on a medal press in February to provide approval samples for mint and treasury officers, and sculptor James Fraser who was advising them. There are several characteristics that have been in my books and other published material...and there are others that are reserved for authentication purposes and not public knowledge.

RE: "I've had two experts look at this coin an said it has the same characteristics as the matte finish and others said no an I get it cause it's that hard to believe." I understand your comment; however, there are only a handful of collectors or dealers in the country who have personally examined a 1922 LR proof, so it's likely neither was really "expert."

Looking forward to seeing good photos.

 

I agree with neither were expert to verify this coin. An I'm not saying it's the one dont take me the wrong way. Just asking questions and information is all. Hopefully to learn something valuable. I think outside the box an not stay in a bubble cause everything changes that's facts. 

[Bradley44]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:52 PM, Alex in PA. said:

We had a post not so long ago by an NGC expert on finding new varieties of coins unexpectedly.  So Mr. Bradley44 - there is always hope.   

I agree with that statement cause coin collecting would be a thing of the past if there was nothing to search for. As I say to a lot of folks back in them days you think if we worked at the mint there wouldn't have been a few extra made of this an that for collecting an for people to discover in the future. Not to mention back in the depression I believe there was some employees that would have saved something valuable back for a loved one or relative an such. I would have an believe others would have as well jus saying. That's why there's been so many new discoveries an finds to this day. As we had written documents back then not computers to keep records of what all was made an not made an wish they'd made or whatever. 

[Bradley44]

On 10/6/2021 at 4:49 PM, Greenstang said:

I believe when they say "sandblasting", they are referring to the 1922 Low Relief Matte Finish which had the dies sandblasted to produce the matte finish.

 

1922 Low Relief Matte Finish

Is the only picture of this coin available an diagnostics an die Marks. 

[RWB]

Useless photo. It is from the old Benson Collection (Goldberg Auction) and the one you saw is a very poor version.

[Bradley44]

Yea that's why I was asking if anyone had anymore photos of the coin

[Raggedyoldman]

Definitely low relief. Matte/Sandblasted?

[Raggedyoldman]

Flipside.

[RWB]

Neither. Merely dirty....but, don't clean it. It's more presentable this way.

[Raggedyoldman]

Thank you for your reply! Also have a 1924 the same. Dirt will remain!

Edited September 10, 2022 by Raggedyoldman

[RWB]

If your are interested in the background story of the Peace dollar, including all the proofs and trial pieces, the Whitman book A Guide Book to Peace Dollars, by me, is a good start. It answeres a lot of beginner and advanced collector questions, and has a long detailed chapter of facts about the 1964-D coins.

[Raggedyoldman]

On 9/10/2022 at 7:50 PM, RWB said:

If your are interested in the background story of the Peace dollar, including all the proofs and trial pieces, the Whitman book A Guide Book to Peace Dollars, by me, is a good start. It answeres a lot of beginner and advanced collector questions, and has a long detailed chapter of facts about the 1964-D coins.

Yes, I  am very interested! Do I purchase it from you or some place else?