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Any advice for becoming a dealer at coin shows?
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100 posts in this topic

On 8/27/2021 at 7:26 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I am afraid I knew none of this.  There is an international coin show in Manhattan, with quite reasonable admission prices the vast majority of our members will not attend, but I will be there, likely with my wife as she does not permit me to go anywhere by myself (citing our contract and agreement, a reference to our marriage license).  If I am unable to find a Rooster I need there are sure to be knowledgeable dealers who will be happy to provide business cards and point me helpfully in a productive direction. Hopefully, I will be able to fit in the suit and shoes I wore only once to tie the knot at "City Hall," long ago moved to a vacated office of the state Department of Motor Vehicles nearby.

if all else fails maybe they can direct u to the Red Rooster in Harlem....wearing a suit to a coin show mite cost u more money also...

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@RWB... For the truly interested, but glaringly uninformed, a polite referral to a helpful Red Book may suffice to complement a soliloquy. Not mentioned in your column is something I have seen done at flea markets: modest price reductions to avoid having to transport all that inventory home at the conclusion of proceedings.

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On 8/27/2021 at 11:06 PM, zadok said:

if all else fails maybe they can direct u to the Red Rooster in Harlem....wearing a suit to a coin show mite cost u more money also...

Maybe it's time for me to get a becoming sport jacket.

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On 8/28/2021 at 7:33 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Maybe it's time for me to get a becoming sport jacket.

maybe...u dress up n they becoming for ur money...like ole teddy said..."dress poor but carry a big wallet"...or something like that...

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On 8/26/2021 at 10:54 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

We're not giving prime locations, premium tables, to folks packing up late-morning on Sunday. (thumbsu

Why not?  I might need that spot to show off my unusual talent.  :makepoint:

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On 8/28/2021 at 10:14 AM, zadok said:

maybe...u dress up n they becoming for ur money...like ole teddy said..."dress poor but carry a big wallet"...or something like that...

Well, better becoming than bespoke.

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On 8/28/2021 at 1:56 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Why not?  I might need that spot to show off my unusual talent.  :makepoint:

Any advice for becoming a dealer at coin shows?

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Yes, Mark.  The very best dealers treat their visitors as if they were the most important guests who have honored them with their presence. To some, being polite and attentive come naturally. These are the people, like you, who have long recognized that the customer, the client, the patron, is the very reason for your existence. There are what I call natural-born dealers who hone their craft and are in the business for the long term.  Then there are those who are in it for the short term. No offense intended, but these are most often the bullion dealers. They're in it for everything they can get, and when the bottom falls out, they're gone.   🐓

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On 8/28/2021 at 7:26 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Yes, Mark.  The very best dealers treat their visitors as if they were the most important guests who have honored them with their presence. To some, being polite and attentive come naturally. These are the people, like you, who have long recognized that the customer, the client, the patron, is the very reason for your existence. There are what I call natural-born dealers who hone their craft and are in the business for the long term.  Then there are those who are in it for the short term. No offense intended, but these are most often the bullion dealers. They're in it for everything they can get, and when the bottom falls out, they're gone.   🐓

Curiously, what led you to that idea about bullion dealers ?

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On 8/28/2021 at 8:54 PM, MarkFeld said:

Curiously, what led you to that idea about bullion dealers ?

Northwest Territorial Mint. They were the best, until they no longer were.  Precious Metals have been, are, and will always be volatile. To stay solvent, they were "forced" to resort to "borrow" heavily from Peter, to pay Paul. I purchased 100 t z silver bars and cashed out locally after receiving a few, and then many disturbing reports from customers whose much larger orders were not being filled in timely fashion.  I didn't learn the full story until I decided to buy again unaware of the scandal that had erupted and saturated the news on the internet with customers who had lost everything.  I am sure Bernie Madoff's investors felt the same way. The S.S. Central America scandal was a surprise disappointment for me. I only followed the expedition whose meticulously documented research was filmed and recorded for posterity but never would have thought something with such great expectations would end so badly.

I believe you are well-positioned to maximize your profits as a cautious, knowledgeable negotiator. I am as simple a collector as you can get with minimal holdings. Do I have what it takes to be a dealer? No. I will find out at the New York International Numismatic Convention, my first, when it comes to town in mid-January 2022. Better late than never.

 

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On 8/29/2021 at 5:11 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Northwest Territorial Mint. They were the best, until they no longer were.  Precious Metals have been, are, and will always be volatile. To stay solvent, they were "forced" to resort to "borrow" heavily from Peter, to pay Paul. I purchased 100 t z silver bars and cashed out locally after receiving a few, and then many disturbing reports from customers whose much larger orders were not being filled in timely fashion.  I didn't learn the full story until I decided to buy again unaware of the scandal that had erupted and saturated the news on the internet with customers who had lost everything.  I am sure Bernie Madoff's investors felt the same way. The S.S. Central America scandal was a surprise disappointment for me. I only followed the expedition whose meticulously documented research was filmed and recorded for posterity but never would have thought something with such great expectations would end so badly.

I believe you are well-positioned to maximize your profits as a cautious, knowledgeable negotiator. I am as simple a collector as you can get with minimal holdings. Do I have what it takes to be a dealer? No. I will find out at the New York International Numismatic Convention, my first, when it comes to town in mid-January 2022. Better late than never.

 

Clearly, there are and have been plenty of bad bullion dealers. But ditto for coin dealers and dealers in other fields, too.

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On 8/27/2021 at 5:27 PM, MarkFeld said:

Depending upon the show, the cost for a table/tables can be hundreds or even many thousands of dollars. 

You're talking coin shows here, right ?

Do the Big 3 (FUN, ANA, Long Branch) charge more for premium booth locations ? 

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On 8/28/2021 at 7:29 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

@RWB... For the truly interested, but glaringly uninformed, a polite referral to a helpful Red Book may suffice to complement a soliloquy. Not mentioned in your column is something I have seen done at flea markets: modest price reductions to avoid having to transport all that inventory home at the conclusion of proceedings.

That's more of an issue when you have big stuff to transport.  At least 1 or 2 or even 3 cases of coins can be moved in 1 or 2 suitcase-like cases.

My astronomy club has folks bring huge telescopes and lots of equipment.  You can EASILY save a few hundred dollars by not having to transport something like that back across the country.  Some of our folks must spend thousands of dollars transporting stuff acrosss the country, then you also add in lodging, transportation, and food for anywhere from 2-6 workers.

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On 8/28/2021 at 8:26 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Yes, Mark.  The very best dealers treat their visitors as if they were the most important guests who have honored them with their presence. To some, being polite and attentive come naturally. These are the people, like you, who have long recognized that the customer, the client, the patron, is the very reason for your existence. There are what I call natural-born dealers who hone their craft and are in the business for the long term.  Then there are those who are in it for the short term. No offense intended, but these are most often the bullion dealers. They're in it for everything they can get, and when the bottom falls out, they're gone.   🐓

I have to say that I have found virtually all of the dealers courteous, respectful, and friendly -- whether it is the new Mt. Kisco (Westchester) show...the old Westchester Quarterly Show....or the monthly Parsippany Show.

And FUN was lots of fun.  I can't recall a single negative or even cold attitude from one dealer.  And I was looking for it to report back here. 

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On 8/30/2021 at 4:27 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

You're talking coin shows here, right ?

Do the Big 3 (FUN, ANA, Long Branch) charge more for premium booth locations ? 

From the initial research I’ve done most shows have a few options at different price points. Corner locations, larger areas, etc seem to be more than a smaller interior table. Now I have yet to rent one in my life so I can’t say that this is always the case. Just what I have seen so far. 

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On 8/30/2021 at 5:27 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

You're talking coin shows here, right ?

Do the Big 3 (FUN, ANA, Long Branch) charge more for premium booth locations ? 

u talking coin shows or saloons there miss kitty?....

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On 8/29/2021 at 5:44 AM, MarkFeld said:

Clearly, there are and have been plenty of bad bullion dealers. But ditto for coin dealers and dealers in other fields, too.

And bad advertising spokespeople too. I offer you the totally obnoxious William Devane.

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On 8/30/2021 at 8:47 PM, zadok said:

u talking coin shows or saloons there miss kitty?....

All ANA shows are uber-expensive. FUN and Long Beach are a touch lower.

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On 8/30/2021 at 9:55 PM, VKurtB said:

And bad advertising spokespeople too. I offer you the totally obnoxious William Devane.

Did great work in "24" and MARATHON MAN.  xD

If the company he works for just sells bullion, no objections. (thumbsu

 

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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On 8/30/2021 at 9:18 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Did great work in "24" and MARATHON MAN.  xD

If the company he works for just sells bullion, no objections. (thumbsu

 

Wife and I always laugh about the "strict limit 5 coins per caller" stuff on those commercials:

"I'm going to call them! Right now! I will demand that they sell me six coins or they're taking away my freedom!"

"You get 'em, dear. Don't let them get away with that!"

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On 8/27/2021 at 12:43 PM, RWB said:

A simple approach is for the sponsor to require dealer active presence during specified dates and times. Violation means forfeiture of a security deposit, or public display of those who left w/o approval, or no future invitation. Once several promoters enforce similar conditions, dealers will stay and at minimum occupy the space.

The ANA tried this.  Many of the major dealers who are a big draw for the show occupy the area right by the entrance and they had been leaving early.  The ANA put in a rule that those dealers who left early would lose or have reduced their right to attend the next year.  The first time they tried to apply it the major dealers told them that if they did that they simply wouldn't take tables the next year and would just attend and work the floor.  the net result was the big dealers got a pass on the rule but it was applied only to the smaller dealers.  And you still had the big guys leaving early and leaving empty tables near the entrance.

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Cardboard cutouts.

I wonder how much the "big dealers" actually contribute to bourse activity. Again, it comes back to the purpose of the event. Evidently the ANA did not try either enforcing their "policy," or getting the dealers to help devise a solution to the empty table problem.

Edited by RWB
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I am a mere sapling to the grove of sequoia thriving on the bourse course but, never having been to a coin show or convention, two questions come to mind.

One, do these presentations have overseers or security aides with lapel pins 📌 enforcing the rules and regulations, discreetly, and Two, do the dealers you refer to check-out formally with show brass, or simply pack up unobtrusively and waltz out like rats with no notice whatsoever?  I would ask VKurtB, but he's too busy taking pictures. 😉 

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On 9/1/2021 at 7:10 PM, RWB said:

Cardboard cutouts.

I wonder how much the "big dealers" actually contribute to bourse activity. Again, it comes back to the purpose of the event. Evidently the ANA did not try either enforcing their "policy," or getting the dealers to help devise a solution to the empty table problem.

Empty tables, eh?  Seems like a way to winnow down the 🐓 roost with seldom seen specimens I've superseded with upgrades.  True, they're foreign, but my needs require no more than a checkerboard square. What do you think space like that would  cost me?

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I've been told that 80% of the dealers business is dealer-to-dealer before the shows even start.  It's almost like the show dealing with the public/retail is mostly for show and/or fluff.

If that is the case, then unlike my club's vendor show, show organizers have less leverage with the dealers.  However, you would hope that the dealers realize it's good for the show itself and the hobby to "stick around."  

Each show is diffferent.  At FUN 2020, by the 4th day (Sunday) you clearly had winnowed the dealers and folks were often packing up.  I didn't have a problem with that because they had been there for 3 days already, 2 weekdays and Saturday.  Plus, they didn't charge admission either so you really can't gripe about who was there and who wasn't.  Very few dealers packed it up after Thursday only but a few were gone after Friday or early-Saturday. 

Shorter shows are obviously different.

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its a mixed bag as it is with every type of show or convention where goods r being sold...some r there for the quik transfusion of wholesale money, some for the upper retail buyers, some for obtaining future customers or retaining old, some just for the atmosphere n opportunities...the real bottom line is the money, but what should be the bottom line is the longevity of the hobby...without the infusion of new customers into the hobby it dies, after all the dealers who r wholesaling everything to other dealers can only last for so long if ultimately there r no end customers to sell to...on the larger shows its not likely to change, the power structure is too well entrenched n will remain so until there would happen to be a significant money erosion...its the smaller shows where early departures hurt the future growth of the hobby, many working folks n young potential collectors can often only attend on the last day of the shows n if they arrive n half the vendors r gone or r packing up the future of the hobby just gives up n walks away....

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On 9/2/2021 at 3:13 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Empty tables, eh?  Seems like a way to winnow down the 🐓 roost with seldom seen specimens I've superseded with upgrades.  True, they're foreign, but my needs require no more than a checkerboard square. What do you think space like that would  cost me?

on the last day of the show....a big fat rooster egg...

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