What percentage of active coin collectors read hobby books.... 0

[GoldFinger1969]

Got the Stacks/Bowers Liberty Double Eagle book today.....it's in GREAT shape, basically new except for a slight tear on the book jacket (who cares).

The book is definitely worth what I paid for it but different than I thought. What Bowers/Galiette do is a year-by-year history of the country dealing with major historical events (Civil War, opening of Carson City Mint, etc.) . But it does NOT have a year-by-year detailed analysis on that year's Liberty DE like Roger Burdette's book on Saint-Gaudens DEs does. For $20, it's definitely worth it to me.  For $300, it wouldn't be.  Probably not even at $100. It is on fine glossy paper and well-bound, I must say.  

Every chapter corresponds to a year from 1849 (The Gold Rush) to 1907 (End of the Liberty DE, Hello to the Saint-Gaudens DE).

Typical Yearly Chapter: Numismatic news on coins or paper currency....economic or business happenings, like with Standard Oil....details on the dies being sent to the variou Mints....any changes (i.e, Types 1, 2, 3).....coin collector and numismatic commentaries for that year....plus a picture of that year's coin which can be either small or full-page.

If you have a chance to get this book on the cheap, definitely a beautiful coffee table book (tell Kramer ! ) or reference book.

Edited December 23, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[arthurkunzee]

On 8/20/2021 at 4:38 AM, Mohawk said:

I definitely read hobby books.  I've read the Red Whitman guide books when I worked at the brick and mortar for Lincoln Cents, Morgan Dollars, Double Eagles and your Peace Dollar book, Roger.  I don't even collect any of those coins and I enjoyed reading about them!  As for my own personal collecting pursuit, I'm looking for a book that is harder to find than the coins I'm seeking!!! I just cant find a copy of the third volume (the old third volume, not the new one on Hadrian) of the Roman Imperial Coinage to save my life!!! I also have the Aorta reference for Roman coins right on my bedside table right now.  I dig into that one frequently.
I have been a collector for more than 10 years. I inherited this element from my father, and he from his father. You could say it has been a hobby for generations. I also love to read, recently read "the faerie queene", used https://freebooksummary.com/category/the-faerie-queene for that. Because of that, I also started collecting them. Now I'm on the lookout for something beyond old. Ready to pay any money. I think I will give up coins and start doing books, but that is unlikely.

I, too, am on the lookout for books that are appreciated

Edited December 28, 2022 by arthurkunzee

[l.cutler]

It really depends on what you consider a collector.  I think what I would call "true collectors", it would be a much higher percentage reading the books. I have dozens that I use regularly, some are actually falling apart.  I doubt any of the "I watched a you tube video what is this worth" do or will read any numismatic books.  You can't even convince them to buy a redbook, they just keep coming back to the forums with "what about this one".

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/24/2022 at 9:02 AM, l.cutler said:

It really depends on what you consider a collector.  I think what I would call "true collectors", it would be a much higher percentage reading the books. I have dozens that I use regularly, some are actually falling apart.  I doubt any of the "I watched a you tube video what is this worth" do or will read any numismatic books.  You can't even convince them to buy a redbook, they just keep coming back to the forums with "what about this one".

Some books just stand the test of time and even if the data turns a bit stale, the books are going to be looked at for years or decades.  I think of the Whitman Red Books which, especially if they have updated editions, have really good data even compared to the latest that you can get off the internet.

If you collect a more niche or obscure coin set, there might not be as many books out there to choose from, unlike Lincoln Cents or Morgan Dollars which have dozens of books each.

A book like RWB's Saints DE book has stuff that you just can't or won't find online as opposed to the books which just compile information that is out there but now it is in one handy easy-to-find location. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

On 12/24/2022 at 9:56 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

 

A book like RWB's Saints DE book has stuff that you just can't or won't find online as opposed to the books which just compile information that is out there

For me, as a minor scribbler, this is a big part of the reason for publishing in printed form: it's not going to suddenly evaporate. I attempt to present a broader expanse of the subject and to place details within context so that readers can have a fuller understanding of the subject and its historical meaning.

[Quintus Arrius]

On 12/24/2022 at 9:56 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

A book like RWB's Saints DE book has stuff that you just can't or won't find online as opposed to the books which just compile information that is out there but now it is in one handy easy-to-find location. 

Everything on gold Roosters is spread thin amongst twelve sources. All my knowledge was put together piecemeal.  There was no other way to do it.  The French Red Book?  About as useful as an old 'phone directory: Dates and mintage (and out of date values.) Little else.  Varieties, errors?  Don't make me laugh!

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:04 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Everything on gold Roosters is spread thin amongst twelve sources. All my knowledge was put together piecemeal.  There was no other way to do it.  The French Red Book?  About as useful as an old 'phone directory: Dates and mintage (and out of date values.) Little else.  Varieties, errors?  Don't make me laugh!

What about auction catalogs or online descriptions with information from sales, like you see with Saints and other coins over at HA ?

[zadok]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:43 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

What about auction catalogs or online descriptions with information from sales, like you see with Saints and other coins over at HA ?

...GF there is a reason that the gold bullion issues have very little written material about them, very few collectors...the auction houses seldom even list/sell these coins unless they r in the superlative grades, usually u mite find them listed in lots rather than individually n even when listed the descriptions r mostly bout the surfaces or color of that coin n nothing historically bout the series or date n never anything bout the variety unless its an overdate...no one publishes books that wont sell unless its a labor of love publication....

[Quintus Arrius]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:43 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

What about auction catalogs or online descriptions with information from sales, like you see with Saints and other coins over at HA ?

Probably not lawful to say here, and I'm already on Mark's bad side, but HA has got to be the most user-unfriendly web site ever devised by man.

[samclemen3991]

I am not trying to argue with you Quintus but I use their web site almost every day.  I am about as computer literate as my dog and have no problems with their site.  What feature(s) are giving you so much trouble?

[RWB]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:04 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Probably not lawful to say here, and I'm already on Mark's bad side, but HA has got to be the most user-unfriendly web site ever devised by man.

Interesting. I've found it to be the best of all auction company sites and filled with information if you are looking for coin images. Auction lot descriptions are helpful pointers to original sources - especially the ones written over the past decade.

[Quintus Arrius]

Gentlemen, it looks like I've been chump-jumped here.  I am using a cell phone.  To me, there is simply too much going on in too little space.  And if I were pushing things, and enlarge what I see, I might as well be using a periscope.  In fact--let me see if I can find it... here it is, a copy of "The Collector's Handbook," free, because their site would not permit me to order one.  The lady felt sorry for me (a college grad that cannot navigate a web site) and just shipped on out.

It's all water under the bridge now.  My collection is complete.  For years, I always got zero results when I inquired, in all the appropriate categories, whether any gold roosters were available.  I tried it again now.  Maybe I will give it another shot later tonite.  I believe it is PCGS that lists auction results, but I, a mere individual, am not recognized, and the prices I see listed make no sense to me whatever. They do not align with what I have seen, what I've read, and to sellers who pay homage to the God who goes by the acronym FMV.

Why are results realized by HA listed and a request has to be made to see the ones from eBay?  I see in my notes where $2,280. was paid for a 1909 in MS-67, but why?  The same coin sold at HA for $400. Either few Roosters are sold (very likely) or few if any have been sold recently.

Some more rants:  it is impossible to make a simple change to your Want List.  Everything seems to get added on. Makes no difference to me because none of a dozen different entries elicited a reply much less a notification.  They're always hiring; maybe they don't have the people to handle the volume for the people that like me, bottom line, don't count.

The site is way to busy. [Only an NGC submission form or an IRS form's busier.]  But maybe, just maybe, it's just me.  There are a lot of turn-offs particularly when it comes to bidding.  Tell you what, Iike that T-shirt says, "I'm not a gynecologist but I'll take a look." One last gripe, I detest passwords, user names, PINs and particularly instructions that specify they must contain X number of letters, a lower or upper case letter, a number and a punctuation mark. Refresh my memory, wasn't there a time when you can let your fingers do the shopping without being asked to produce ID, empty your pockets and take off your shoes?

 

[Quintus Arrius]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:34 PM, samclemen3991 said:

I am not trying to argue with you Quintus but I use their web site almost every day.  I am about as computer literate as my dog and have no problems with their site.  What feature(s) are giving you so much trouble?

You will be gratified to learn I took an hour out of my busy [non-existent] schedule to re-visit HA.com, signed in, accepted their invitation to utilize their app[lication] and, voila!  Everything fell into place.  I still couldn't edit my WANT LIST but cheated and used their form. I got an immediate response.  They said it may take up to two weeks to get a response but I expect to live longer than that plus intend to drop in to NYINC to sweep their offerings, so what have I got to lose?  HA is okay if you don't allow their portfolio to overwhelm you.  Out of a dozen categories, I narrowed my interest to just one: coins. Considering I never bought a coin at auction, confining my activities to eBay and bribing overseas outlets, I cannot say I have a leg to stand on re complaints.  So, I thank you for urging me to take another look and I believe I do have a better understanding of Heritage.  Now, if you want to insist "cookies" will improve my viewing experience, sorry, I'm not with you on that! When that curtain rises, I scroll away.  [Is it just me or has anyone else noticed every conceivable organization known to civilized man has incredibly decided that $19/month is the ideal amount to ask your average person for to fund their administrative expenses? Fuhgeddaboutit!]

Edited December 24, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
The usual die polishing.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 12/24/2022 at 3:45 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Gentlemen, it looks like I've been chump-jumped here.  I am using a cell phone.  To me, there is simply too much going on in too little space.  And if I were pushing things, and enlarge what I see, I might as well be using a periscope.  In fact--let me see if I can find it... here it is, a copy of "The Collector's Handbook," free, because their site would not permit me to order one.  The lady felt sorry for me (a college grad that cannot navigate a web site) and just shipped on out.

It's all water under the bridge now.  My collection is complete.  For years, I always got zero results when I inquired, in all the appropriate categories, whether any gold roosters were available.  I tried it again now.  Maybe I will give it another shot later tonite.  I believe it is PCGS that lists auction results, but I, a mere individual, am not recognized, and the prices I see listed make no sense to me whatever. They do not align with what I have seen, what I've read, and to sellers who pay homage to the God who goes by the acronym FMV.

Why are results realized by HA listed and a request has to be made to see the ones from eBay?  I see in my notes where $2,280. was paid for a 1909 in MS-67, but why?  The same coin sold at HA for $400. Either few Roosters are sold (very likely) or few if any have been sold recently.

Some more rants:  it is impossible to make a simple change to your Want List.  Everything seems to get added on. Makes no difference to me because none of a dozen different entries elicited a reply much less a notification.  They're always hiring; maybe they don't have the people to handle the volume for the people that like me, bottom line, don't count.

The site is way to busy. [Only an NGC submission form or an IRS form's busier.]  But maybe, just maybe, it's just me.  There are a lot of turn-offs particularly when it comes to bidding.  Tell you what, Iike that T-shirt says, "I'm not a gynecologist but I'll take a look." One last gripe, I detest passwords, user names, PINs and particularly instructions that specify they must contain X number of letters, a lower or upper case letter, a number and a punctuation mark. Refresh my memory, wasn't there a time when you can let your fingers do the shopping without being asked to produce ID, empty your pockets and take off your shoes?

 

QA, your post is lacking in one area, don't worry, I got you..... 

😆

I have not tried navigating the HA website on my phone but I'm inclined to agree with you in that it would be a worse experience when compared to a laptop or desktop, my preferred interaction. HA usually achieves higher than normal prices, so I'm surprised to read that rooster prices realized are low.

In general I like the HA website and information contained within, albeit an outlier when it comes to prices realized for areas I collect. If I was selling I'd be all in.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Fenntucky Mike
Spelling

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:04 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Probably not lawful to say here, and I'm already on Mark's bad side, but HA has got to be the most user-unfriendly web site ever devised by man.

I'm going to disagree with you on that, QA....but it DOES take time to learn how to narrow the focus.  The key is to keep refining the search with the drop-arrow choices....just don't type in the box in the far left and expect to have a narrow focus.

It took me months to figure out how to use it efficiently and I'm still not sure I'm operating at peak efficiency, but I can usually bring up a bunch of relevant sales in a minute or two whereas it would take 10-15 minutes a few years ago.

If you need help, PM me.   FWIW, I punched up some Roosters but mostly very short descriptions of 2-4 sentences, nothing at all like the U.S. descriptions for high-priced or famous coin types. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/24/2022 at 6:56 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

QA, your post is lacking in one area, don't worry, I got you.....  have not tried navigating the HA website on my phone but I'm inclined to agree with you in that it would be a worse experience when compared to a laptop or desktop, my preferred interaction. HA usually achieves higher than normal prices, so I'm surprised to read that rooster prices realized are low. In general I like the HA website and information contained within, albeit an outlier when it comes to prices realized fir areas I collect. If I was selling I'd be all in.

The descriptions on famous coin series and/or high-priced sales is fantastic.  Alot of it is cut-and-pastes from various books, auction catalogs, etc....but it's nice to have it online and I have spent lots of hours copying that stuff into Word/PDF formats so God Forbid the site or specific coins are lost/deleted, I have the commentaries.

Edited December 25, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/24/2022 at 3:45 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

It's all water under the bridge now.  My collection is complete.  For years, I always got zero results when I inquired, in all the appropriate categories, whether any gold roosters were available.  I tried it again now.  Maybe I will give it another shot later tonite.  I believe it is PCGS that lists auction results, but I, a mere individual, am not recognized, and the prices I see listed make no sense to me whatever. They do not align with what I have seen, what I've read, and to sellers who pay homage to the God who goes by the acronym FMV.  Why are results realized by HA listed and a request has to be made to see the ones from eBay?  I see in my notes where $2,280. was paid for a 1909 in MS-67, but why?  The same coin sold at HA for $400. Either few Roosters are sold (very likely) or few if any have been sold recently.

I couldn't find that MS-67 you cited.  I did find a bunch of other Roosters sold 7-9 years ago for a few hundred dollars each.  I seem to find lots more coins for Double Eagles and Morgans when I do searches, which makes sense since there's lots more past/current sales of those coins thatn foreign gold in total let alone Roosters solo.

It might pay to reach out to HA and see if you can do something to bring specific Roosters or ALL Roosters sold (with or without the Grade Filter checked off) up as a list.  Maybe they plan on expanding with this series, if there's enough $$$ in it for them.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:34 PM, samclemen3991 said:

I am not trying to argue with you Quintus but I use their web site almost every day.  I am about as computer literate as my dog and have no problems with their site.  What feature(s) are giving you so much trouble?

I think the relative scarcity of actual Rooster sales -- particularly recently -- is what is causing the search algorithim to have trouble refining the search.  There simply may not be enough sales of Roosters in the archives to do efficient searches.

He should probably email HA.

[Fenntucky Mike]

Katz Auctions has a better archive of world coins than HA but you have to be careful with them, they sell lots of problem coins and notes, most are identified as such though. Some roosters and SGDE's for sale in the latest auction. Lots of 20th century counterfeit dies in the latest auction as well.

[samclemen3991]

Quintus, I am glad you were able to get the site to function for you.  I have considered Heritage to be the flagship of numismatic endeavors.  I can't help you with the smart phone issue.  I have never owned one, but would think ALL the websites are tiny that way.

The want list management is an easy 3 step process.  1 check small box in front of coin (s) you wish to delete.  2 go to small box at bottom of page and select option delete.  3 click OK when prompted if this is your desired action.

I also do not know much about ROOSTER coins.  Sound fascinating, but have to many other coins on my radar.

Last of all I would encourage you to explore the MY COLLECTIONS option.  I have used this wonderful, (and amazingly free), program to track my collections for over 30 years.  I am half Dutch and considered any attempt to charge me money for something that was once free to be an insult to the laws of man and god.  Having said that, if Heritage turned this into a pay feature i would be first in line.  It is that useful.  James

 

[RWB]

On 12/23/2022 at 12:45 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Got the Stacks/Bowers Liberty Double Eagle book today.....it's in GREAT shape, basically new except for a slight tear on the book jacket (who cares).

The book is definitely worth what I paid for it but different than I thought. What Bowers/Galiette do is a year-by-year history of the country dealing with major historical events (Civil War, opening of Carson City Mint, etc.) . But it does NOT have a year-by-year detailed analysis on that year's Liberty DE like Roger Burdette's book on Saint-Gaudens DEs does. For $20, it's definitely worth it to me.  For $300, it wouldn't be.  Probably not even at $100. It is on fine glossy paper and well-bound, I must say.  

Every chapter corresponds to a year from 1849 (The Gold Rush) to 1907 (End of the Liberty DE, Hello to the Saint-Gaudens DE).

Typical Yearly Chapter: Numismatic news on coins or paper currency....economic or business happenings, like with Standard Oil....details on the dies being sent to the variou Mints....any changes (i.e, Types 1, 2, 3).....coin collector and numismatic commentaries for that year....plus a picture of that year's coin which can be either small or full-page.

If you have a chance to get this book on the cheap, definitely a beautiful coffee table book (tell Kramer ! ) or reference book.

This is consistent with the Bowers book approach --. Nothing bad about it as long as one is looking for high-level "headline" context. Others prefer a more tightly focused approach, but -- heck, Bowers' books are good sellers....Most others aren't.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:48 PM, RWB said:

This is consistent with the Bowers book approach --. Nothing bad about it as long as one is looking for high-level "headline" context. Others prefer a more tightly focused approach, but -- heck, Bowers' books are good sellers....Most others aren't.

You nailed it....I just would have liked having updated information from his Whitman DE book at the front of each new chapter (year) similar to what you had in your Saints book with mintage, estimated MS and non-MS survivors, etc.  But they went with a different approach.

Since that part would have been mostly data-driven, I would think it could be done with minimal effort, maybe with staff help, as opposed to writing the prose for each year/chapter with 5-7 different sub-topics.

[RWB]

Bowers' books were, and are, mostly assembled by assistants. I've edited several and it's a well organized, efficient process.

Edited December 26, 2022 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/26/2022 at 1:40 PM, RWB said:

Bowers' book were, and are, mostly assembled by assistants. I've edited several and it's a well organized, efficient process.

You got Acknowledged in the Red Book with some detail and mentions of proofs, UHRs, and National Archive research.  And of course your own Red Book dealing with proofs. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

"Minimal effort" produces "minimal results."

The meaningful value is to use reduced effort in one aspect to improve the effort in another, more difficult aspect. Time saved, must not be time lost....it is only redirected to improved productivity.

[RWB]

On 12/26/2022 at 3:29 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

You got Acknowledged in the Red Book with some detail and mentions of proofs, UHRs, and National Archive research. 

? Haven't seen that....or did I misread?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/26/2022 at 1:40 PM, RWB said:

Bowers' book were, and are, mostly assembled by assistants. 

He must be approaching 90 by now.  God Bless ! 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/26/2022 at 3:31 PM, RWB said:

? Haven't seen that....or did I misread?

Page 5....."Roger W. Burdette, has provided much hitherto unseen information about the illustrious 1907 coinage of Augustus Saint-Gaudens, the making of the Ultra High Relief double eagle, the procedures for creating Proofs, and more, based on his own research and information from the National Archives."

[RWB]

Thanks! Hadn't seen that, but they only send review copies occasionally.

[olympicsos]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:48 PM, RWB said:

This is consistent with the Bowers book approach --. Nothing bad about it as long as one is looking for high-level "headline" context. Others prefer a more tightly focused approach, but -- heck, Bowers' books are good sellers....Most others aren't.

Because those are the ones that Barnes and Noble carries!