One dollar coins underused.

[dougstevens-migration]

In my opinion, the SBA dollar coin may have been a little mistake on the part of whoever made the final decision on it. I do however like the Sacagawea dollar. I would like it a whole lot more if there was somewhere that you could bloody use it.

 

I really got accustomed to using dollar coins after living in Australia for a few years. They have 1 and 2 dollar coins and their smallest note is $5, so you are kind of forced to use the coins. Being an ethnocentric American I didn't like them at first, but fell in love with them after my first trip to the vending machine. Sticking one coin in the machine for a bottle of Coke was very nice, as was not needing to lug so much change around for buses, trains, and tollways.

 

I live in a small town now and don't ride the train, but on a recent trip to D.C. I was frustrated to have to carry around so much change and to try and stick beat up dollar notes into machines that kept spitting them back at me.

 

So why can't the most powerful nation on earth use the metric system, or make machines that accept one dollar coins.

[TomB]

Well, our coinage is based on the metric system, so I guess you are referring to speed limit signs.

 

Political expediency is the answer to most of the rant in your post. Also, keep in mind that other nations' citizens generally did not embrace large denomination coinage, it was forced upon them through the withdrawal of notes.

[cpm9ball]

Doug, welcome to the boards!

 

Just by coincidence, one of the members, Mark Hooten, aka Hoot, wrote a great article on the SBA and Frank Gasparro's original design for the dollar coin in the Coin Values supplement to the June 6 issue of Coin World . It is really worth reading.

 

Do you live in the MD or VA suburbs of D.C.? I was born and raised in Rockville but have long since removed myself to snowless FL.

 

Metric system? Nah! The NHRA wouldn't go for it. Besides, "mile" is only one syllable and "kilometer" is four. It's easier for a drunk to slur when giving directions to a cabbie.

 

Chris

[HaydenTubbs]

So why can't the most powerful nation on earth use the metric system, or make machines that accept one dollar coins

Congressmen?

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

So why can't the most powerful nation on earth use the metric system, or make machines that accept one dollar coins

Congressmen?

 

 

 

 

Bite your tongue, Hayden! It's Congresspersons, N.O.W. that the women have a say!

 

Chris

[HaydenTubbs]

So why can't the most powerful nation on earth use the metric system, or make machines that accept one dollar coins

Congressmen?

 

 

 

 

Bite your tongue, Hayden! It's Congresspersons, N.O.W. that the women have a say!

 

Chris

 

Hey come on N.O.W. ,don't diss a fellow old-schooler!

It's hard these days,mail carrier,fire fighters,etc

 

 

 

BTW interesting enough it's only the feminists that get ticked at all that,the average woman doesn't give a darn,since men actually means the entire human race.

Speaking of which we still use human,instead of hupeople

[cpm9ball]

So why can't the most powerful nation on earth use the metric system, or make machines that accept one dollar coins

Congressmen?

 

 

 

 

Bite your tongue, Hayden! It's Congresspersons, N.O.W. that the women have a say!

 

Chris

 

Hey come on N.O.W. ,don't diss a fellow old-schooler!

It's hard these days,mail carrier,fire fighters,etc

 

 

 

BTW interesting enough it's only the feminists that get ticked at all that,the average woman doesn't give a darn,since men actually means the entire human race.

Speaking of which we still use human,instead of hupeople

 

If hu say so!

 

[BillJones]

I have actually run into Coke machines in the airports that take Sakie dollars and given them out in change. Actually it was kind nice not having to find a one or five dollar bill that is in MS-70 in order to buy a drink. The currency receptitcals are really fussy about taking anything but a virtually perfect note.

 

As a coin dealer who has to travel shows, I'm still not keen about having to give up the dollar bill. Twenty singles is a lot lighter than 20 Sakie dollars.

[factgiver-migration]

So why can't the most powerful nation on earth use the metric system, or make machines that accept one dollar coins

Congressmen?

 

 

 

 

Bite your tongue, Hayden! It's Congresspersons, N.O.W. that the women have a say!

 

Chris

 

Hey come on N.O.W. ,don't diss a fellow old-schooler!

It's hard these days,mail carrier,fire fighters,etc

 

 

 

BTW interesting enough it's only the feminists that get ticked at all that,the average woman doesn't give a darn,since men actually means the entire human race.

Speaking of which we still use human,instead of hupeople

 

If hu say so!

 

 

 

 

FACT

[spy88]

I'm doing my part by using a Sac for a golf ball marker on the green! Granted, I only use one but it is still in "circulation" because I do. And should I ever lose it, I've got 3 more waiting their turn!

 

But I may have to go to the SBA cause the Sac is not as easy to see against the green grass. Got 5 of those just in case.

[SilverDollarMan]

I thought the sac was designed to work in all machines. I don't get it?

[cpm9ball]

I thought the sac was designed to work in all machines. I don't get it?

 

They work in slot-operated pool tables if they have the right changer mechanism. I don't know of a toll road in Florida that accepts them, not even at the attended booth. I wonder if the U.S. Mint stores in Philadelphia, Denver or San Francisco would take them?

 

Chris

[AlixTCat]

My stepdad works as a route driver for a national vending company. ALL his machines take both SBA's and SAC's. In a 6 month period, he gets around 1-2 of each out of $300K worth of coins taken from the machines. The machines do NOT accept anything larger than $1.00 in bill, so they don't give $1 coins out in change. The area where these machines are located is in S. Mississippi. There are oodles of CASINOs there. The casinos use dollar coins or one can buy metal "chips" to use in slot machines. People must ALL be cashing in their SBA's and SAC's BEFORE leaving the casinos. Even the machines IN the casinos he services don't have any dollar coins being used.

 

The only way $1 coins will be in use is if paper $1's are taken out of circulation. People will kick and scream at first, but they'd get used to using the coins. Look how people person_without_enough_empathyed and screamed when they made unleaded gas. But now they don't even sell leaded gas. If you need the lead, you have to buy it and add it yourself.

 

There has been some discussion in another forum that the coins need to be larger so Americans, who like larger, heavier things, would feel they were worth a buck. What do some of you all think?

[cpm9ball]

My stepdad works as a route driver for a national vending company. ALL his machines take both SBA's and SAC's. In a 6 month period, he gets around 1-2 of each out of $300K worth of coins taken from the machines. The machines do NOT accept anything larger than $1.00 in bill, so they don't give $1 coins out in change. The area where these machines are located is in S. Mississippi. There are oodles of CASINOs there. The casinos use dollar coins or one can buy metal "chips" to use in slot machines. People must ALL be cashing in their SBA's and SAC's BEFORE leaving the casinos. Even the machines IN the casinos he services don't have any dollar coins being used.

 

The only way $1 coins will be in use is if paper $1's are taken out of circulation. People will kick and scream at first, but they'd get used to using the coins. Look how people person_without_enough_empathyed and screamed when they made unleaded gas. But now they don't even sell leaded gas. If you need the lead, you have to buy it and add it yourself.

 

There has been some discussion in another forum that the coins need to be larger so Americans, who like larger, heavier things, would feel they were worth a buck. What do some of you all think?

 

As a young kid in the late 50's and early 60's, I can remember that the larger, heavier coins wore holes in my pockets when I was gambling in the pool room.

 

Chris

[supertooth]

Chris-----That"s because you had far tooooooo many in your pockets while you were running around making shots as fast as you could. WHY?? To put more into your pockets!! Bob [supertooth]

[HaydenTubbs]

My stepdad works as a route driver for a national vending company. ALL his machines take both SBA's and SAC's. In a 6 month period, he gets around 1-2 of each out of $300K worth of coins taken from the machines. The machines do NOT accept anything larger than $1.00 in bill, so they don't give $1 coins out in change. The area where these machines are located is in S. Mississippi. There are oodles of CASINOs there. The casinos use dollar coins or one can buy metal "chips" to use in slot machines. People must ALL be cashing in their SBA's and SAC's BEFORE leaving the casinos. Even the machines IN the casinos he services don't have any dollar coins being used.

 

The only way $1 coins will be in use is if paper $1's are taken out of circulation. People will kick and scream at first, but they'd get used to using the coins. Look how people person_without_enough_empathyed and screamed when they made unleaded gas. But now they don't even sell leaded gas. If you need the lead, you have to buy it and add it yourself.

 

There has been some discussion in another forum that the coins need to be larger so Americans, who like larger, heavier things, would feel they were worth a buck. What do some of you all think?

 

As a young kid in the late 50's and early 60's, I can remember that the larger, heavier coins wore holes in my pockets when I was gambling in the pool room.

 

Chris

 

Maybe I don't wan't to take you up on your offer of Texas hold 'em,experinced eh?

[Steve N-migration]

I was just in Ireland and can't begin to tell you how convenient the 1 and 2 Euro coins were!

[davefperry]

One of the problems with the dollar coins is that the federal reserve started mixing SBAs with the SACs. Get rolls from the bank or change at the post office and you get glorified quarters with your golden dollars. SACs might circulate more if the SBA wasn't being slipped into the mix.

[Oldtrader3]

The reason that the US does not use the metric system was opposition from american industry, including the tool and die industry and the auto industry. Now the point is almost moot because the US tool and die industry is almost extinct and the auto industry is already hybrid metric/inch. Additionally, medical device and science based industries have converted to ISO 9000 metric, as have many other companies. It is the politicians that are still living in the stone age.

[sames89305-migration]

The only way $1 coins will be in use is if paper $1's are taken out of circulation. People will kick and scream at first, but they'd get used to using the coins. Look how people person_without_enough_empathyed and screamed when they made unleaded gas. But now they don't even sell leaded gas. If you need the lead, you have to buy it and add it yourself.

 

I agree with you 110%. People dislike change in America on some things and this is one of them. Take away the dollar bill and people will definitly start using them. They would have to wether they like it or not. The paper currency will eventually get worn and tattered and will be destroyed. People will then be forced to use it and that is really the only way I see the SAC's working ever.

[James_OldeTowne]

I think there is simply no way a metallic dollar will be used until two things happen:

 

(1) eliminate the paper dollar

(2) eliminate the cent and possibly the nickel

 

James

[AlixTCat]

I think there is simply no way a metallic dollar will be used until two things happen:

 

(1) eliminate the paper dollar

(2) eliminate the cent and possibly the nickel

 

James

 

James,

 

I understand the logic behind eliminating the paper dollar. But call me dense, I can't figure out why they would need to eliminate the cent and nickel. Could you explain it to me?

 

 

 

 

Jonathan

[cladking]

 

James,

 

I understand the logic behind eliminating the paper dollar. But call me dense, I can't figure out why they would need to eliminate the cent and nickel. Could you explain it to me?

 

 

 

 

Jonathan

 

The cent is obsolete. It costs more to mint than it's face value and the handling costs over its lifetime probably actually exceeds the number of times it's used.

 

The nickel too, has so little buying power that it has very little meaning in today's economy. It's primary function is to bridge the gulf between a dime and a quarter so change can be made.

 

The elimination of the cent is necessary to free up space in cash registers for the dollar coin and to free up mint resources for the mintage of useful coinage. The nickel will probably have to be cheapened before too many more years to keep the cost of minting it down and prevent having to scrap 40 billion quarters.

[James_OldeTowne]

Cents and nickels, as we can tell by the numerous heavily-circulated examples extant, were extensively used in day-to-day commerce through the 1940s. But how often have you seen 1958 Wheat cent in extremely low grade? Or a 1948 Jefferson nickel in extremely grade? They never circulated much, and still don't. The reason is, inflation over the last fifty years has raised prices on goods so much that a cent or a nickel has no real buying power. For that matter, a dime has very little either, but a quarter puts you close to a postage stamp, or a package of gum.

 

Let's assume that in 1935, cents and nickels still had enough buying power that they were frequently used in transactions. My reasoning is that by eliminating cents and nickels, that removes the preponderance of unusable change that's out there. Today's dime is about equivalent in buying power to a 1935 cent, and today's quarter is about equivalent to a 1935 nickel. So by extension, today's dollar might be equivalent to a 1935 quarter, and for that matter, why not mint a five-dollar coin, that might be equivalent to a 1935 dollar?

 

Of course, these are very rough "equivalents", but the point is that unless change actually has real buying power, nobody's going to use it, except as required by the necessity to satisfy the "increments" in use today.

 

Another way to look at it is this. You don't go to the grocery store with a couple of cents and a couple of nickels because those coins can actually buy something. You take them to the store just because they are necessary to accomplish making change. They don't have buying power, they're just a necessary nuisance since we still deal in such small increments. But if a quarter, or a one-dollar coin, or a five-dollar coin could actually BUY something, and not just be a nuisance, then the coin's purpose would be for PURCHASING, not for MAKING CHANGE.

 

Maybe I'm just off on some wild tangent here!

 

James

[AlixTCat]

 

James,

 

I understand the logic behind eliminating the paper dollar. But call me dense, I can't figure out why they would need to eliminate the cent and nickel. Could you explain it to me?

 

 

 

 

Jonathan

 

The cent is obsolete. It costs more to mint than it's face value and the handling costs over its lifetime probably actually exceeds the number of times it's used.

 

The nickel too, has so little buying power that it has very little meaning in today's economy. It's primary function is to bridge the gulf between a dime and a quarter so change can be made.

 

The elimination of the cent is necessary to free up space in cash registers for the dollar coin and to free up mint resources for the mintage of useful coinage. The nickel will probably have to be cheapened before too many more years to keep the cost of minting it down and prevent having to scrap 40 billion quarters.

 

So, uh, how do you deal with taxes like 7.5%? Are we to round up or down? Our local tax is 7.5% and there is likely no way to make it fair to the seller and buyer without using cents. Same with nickels. Say something costs $5.80, you HAVE to have either five cents or a nickel to make $0.80. If it comes out $4.59, how do you handle that?

 

I am not trying to start an argument, just trying to get a handle on how you believe we can deal fairly if we got rid of nickels and cents.

 

Thank!

[AlixTCat]

Cents and nickels, as we can tell by the numerous heavily-circulated examples extant, were extensively used in day-to-day commerce through the 1940s. But how often have you seen 1958 Wheat cent in extremely low grade? Or a 1948 Jefferson nickel in extremely grade? They never circulated much, and still don't. The reason is, inflation over the last fifty years has raised prices on goods so much that a cent or a nickel has no real buying power. For that matter, a dime has very little either, but a quarter puts you close to a postage stamp, or a package of gum.

 

Let's assume that in 1935, cents and nickels still had enough buying power that they were frequently used in transactions. My reasoning is that by eliminating cents and nickels, that removes the preponderance of unusable change that's out there. Today's dime is about equivalent in buying power to a 1935 cent, and today's quarter is about equivalent to a 1935 nickel. So by extension, today's dollar might be equivalent to a 1935 quarter, and for that matter, why not mint a five-dollar coin, that might be equivalent to a 1935 dollar?

 

Of course, these are very rough "equivalents", but the point is that unless change actually has real buying power, nobody's going to use it, except as required by the necessity to satisfy the "increments" in use today.

 

Another way to look at it is this. You don't go to the grocery store with a couple of cents and a couple of nickels because those coins can actually buy something. You take them to the store just because they are necessary to accomplish making change. They don't have buying power, they're just a necessary nuisance since we still deal in such small increments. But if a quarter, or a one-dollar coin, or a five-dollar coin could actually BUY something, and not just be a nuisance, then the coin's purpose would be for PURCHASING, not for MAKING CHANGE.

 

Maybe I'm just off on some wild tangent here!

 

James

 

Of course you can't get much for a nickel or a cent. However, local and state sales taxes make it a necessary evil to keep them in circulation.

[RGT]

So, uh, how do you deal with taxes like 7.5%? Are we to round up or down? Our local tax is 7.5% and there is likely no way to make it fair to the seller and buyer without using cents. Same with nickels. Say something costs $5.80, you HAVE to have either five cents or a nickel to make $0.80. If it comes out $4.59, how do you handle that?

 

I am not trying to start an argument, just trying to get a handle on how you believe we can deal fairly if we got rid of nickels and cents.

 

Thank!

 

Suppose you buy something for $1.00 now with your 7.5% sales tax. What does the clerk charge you? Do we also need to bring back the half cent?

 

Now if the item is only 99 cents it gets even worse. We don't have any coins small enough to make exact change.

 

It seems we aren't dealing fairly now by your standards.

[cpm9ball]

So, uh, how do you deal with taxes like 7.5%? Are we to round up or down? Our local tax is 7.5% and there is likely no way to make it fair to the seller and buyer without using cents. Same with nickels. Say something costs $5.80, you HAVE to have either five cents or a nickel to make $0.80. If it comes out $4.59, how do you handle that?

 

Axe the 1c and 5c denominations; require all business and industry to charge prices in increments of 10c AND pay the sales taxes for the customer. Yeah, right!

 

Chris

[cladking]

 

So, uh, how do you deal with taxes like 7.5%? Are we to round up or down? Our local tax is 7.5% and there is likely no way to make it fair to the seller and buyer without using cents. Same with nickels. Say something costs $5.80, you HAVE to have either five cents or a nickel to make $0.80. If it comes out $4.59, how do you handle that?

 

I am not trying to start an argument, just trying to get a handle on how you believe we can deal fairly if we got rid of nickels and cents.

 

Thank!

 

Generally with a 7.5% sales tax the first one cent in tax kicks in at 7c, the next cent kicks in at 20c, then at 34c and at 13.4c intervals after that. Without a wasteful cent the first nickel would kick in at 33c and then at 67c intervals. The tax comes out exactly the same within 2.5 cents everytime and will be null over the course of a year.

[James_OldeTowne]

The rounding problem is not a new problem! If you buy something that costs exactly $1.00, and tax is 6.285% (as it is where I live), then the total is $.06 and 285/1000 of a cent! So, we are always rounding money even with cents. Contrary to what some have suggested, removing cents (and nickels) from change does not in any way create any new rounding problems.

 

James