2021 Morgan Dollars 1 1

[Alex in PA.]

On 6/9/2021 at 7:41 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

No, not thru the Mint which brushed me off effortlessly, but on eBay

I didn't take you for a guy who buys sight unseen.  What will happen to all those lovely paid out pre-sale dollars if there is an 'accident' at the US Mint and the program must be 'delayed indefinitely'?  Will there be howls of anguish heard round the world?

signed, your friend, the Anti-Privy Mark Guy   

Edited June 11, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[VKurtB]

57 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

I didn't take you for a guy who buys sight unseen.  What will happen to all those lovely paid out pre-sale dollars if there is an 'accident' at the US Mint and the program must be 'delayed indefinitely'?  Will there be howls of anguish heard round the world?

signed, your friend, the Anti-Privy Mark Guy   

Funny, I was under the impression that our man Quintus was an ONLY sight unseen buyer, unless it's the number after the 'MS' on the label he's seeing. Like most registry men, it's all about the ink on the paper inside the plastic. The coin is just along for the ride. 

[Henri Charriere]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

I saw a press in 2016 at New Orleans, after taking the Sunset Limited from LA to New Orleans...

[To me, the Sunset Limited brings to mind the Big Bayou Canot rail accident further east in ALA., and how they were able to determine exactly how and why it happened and who was responsible, circa 1993.]  I trust you've gotten your new driver license by now. My "Enhanced" renewal, good for eight years set me back $128., but I don't trust my eyesight enough to use it.

[gmarguli]

Looks like the D & S versions are sold out in under 30 minutes.

I'm not sure what the Mint did to upgrade their system as it was just as infuriating as in the past with it continuing to sign me out every time an order failed and accusing me of being a bot. 

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/3/2021 at 12:30 PM, gmarguli said:

Looks like the D & S versions are sold out in under 30 minutes.

I'm not sure what the Mint did to upgrade their system as it was just as infuriating as in the past with it continuing to sign me out every time an order failed and accusing me of being a bot. 

Exactly what happened to me the last time.  Gave up and didn't even try this time.  Sad state of affairs at the US Mint.

[Treeman]

Two things people seem to have trouble understanding...

1) If the Mint doesn't occasionally make a lower mintage, desirable product, people lose interest in the modern market. By allowing some hope of getting a "winner", the hobby continues. ( For those who will say that they only want it for their collection, and don't care about value or scarcity.... If the market were flooded with 1793 Chain Cents, and they sold for 5 cents apiece, how many would love to own one? No challenge to find a nice example, no pride in owning a scarce piece...)

2) The Mint, like any other business, cannot afford to spend a fortune to add everything needed to support an onslaught of customers once, or twice, a year. 

People need to grow up. If you really want the coin, pay up in the aftermarket. If it's not worth it to you, then I guess you don't really want it.

If it still seems hard to grasp what I'm saying, let me try it this way...  I would like a nice BU 1978CC Morgan, but I don't like the price. How about you sell me yours for $25?

[Crawtomatic]

On 8/3/2021 at 12:54 PM, Treeman said:

For those who will say that they only want it for their collection, and don't care about value or scarcity.... If the market were flooded with 1793 Chain Cents, and they sold for 5 cents apiece, how many would love to own one? No challenge to find a nice example, no pride in owning a scarce piece...

This comes to mind every time I see a discussion - regardless of topic - where collectors condemn speculators/flippers/scalpers.  

[gmarguli]

On 8/3/2021 at 10:54 AM, Treeman said:

2) The Mint, like any other business, cannot afford to spend a fortune to add everything needed to support an onslaught of customers once, or twice, a year. 

But the Mint pushed back sales so they could address their IT problem. Seems like they didn't fix it. That's where my unhappiness lies. FYI, my order finally went through for both coins, so it's not like I'm unhappy that I didn't get them. 

Every single time my order failed I was logged out. That makes no sense. When I selected my credit card on file, it kept asking me to enter the CC #. It asked me to select a shipping option, but none were available for selection. It asked me to verify I was a human and after I did it told me it could not proceed with the order. Other than getting the errors faster, I don't see what they fixed. 

 

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:54 PM, Treeman said:

People need to grow up. If you really want the coin, pay up in the aftermarket. If it's not worth it to you, then I guess you don't really want it.

I am 70, and I need to grow up?  I don't know how many rings you have in your tree but having lived through many uneventful times, when ordering from the U.S. Mint was a simple routine affordable procedure, I believe you to be a sapling posing as a tree.  There is no greater put-down than to dismiss those who simply wish to place an order on-line devoid of inconvenience and drama as simply never having wanted the product in the first place.

As one of quite a few who have voluntarily elected to no longer do business with the Mint, I have no agenda.  My only concern is if the hobby is lookinga for newcomers -- and keeping them, a slap in the face is not a recommended business model.  Where's that Mint memo proclaiming to all four corners of the earth that the problem highlighted by the debacle attendant to the recent distribution of the first pair of '21 dollars had been identified and corrected?

 

[124Spider]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:25 AM, Crawtomatic said:

This comes to mind every time I see a discussion - regardless of topic - where collectors condemn speculators/flippers/scalpers.  

I have no issue with market forces doing what they do; I have an issue with the Mint selling these for below-market prices, thereby enriching the dealers, who immediately list them on eBay for three times what they paid.  Why doesn't the Mint either make more of them, to satisfy the actual demand, or charge more?

[Crawtomatic]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:40 PM, 124Spider said:

I have no issue with market forces doing what they do; I have an issue with the Mint selling these for below-market prices, thereby enriching the dealers, who immediately list them on eBay for three times what they paid.  Why doesn't the Mint either make more of them, to satisfy the actual demand, or charge more?

That's a legit thought.  But then they run the risk of not selling their inventory.  As long as they're pricing the item at a comfortable profit margin they're better off selling out completely than warehousing product for months/years trying to milk it for full profit.

[124Spider]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:49 AM, Crawtomatic said:

That's a legit thought.  But then they run the risk of not selling their inventory.  As long as they're pricing the item at a comfortable profit margin they're better off selling out completely than warehousing product for months/years trying to milk it for full profit.

I agree with this, but anyone could have told them that $85 would be well below market; I'm hardly an expert, and my coin collection is quite modest compared to those who buy exclusively high-mint state slabbed coins, but I was very certain they were underselling the market.  I have no problem with using a price that would comfortably sell out in a couple of months, but it's absurd to use a price that sells out in 25 minutes, breaking their server in the process!  Even if they were surprised by the demand on May 24 (I wasn't), they knew full well this time what to expect.

[Crawtomatic]

@124Spider Keep in mind it's still the day of release as well.  We're yet to see how it works out and if the supply truly is enough for demand.  The online sales currently of pre-order status for an item that ships in 2 months could very well be inflated by FOMO affect.  Fear Of Missing Out for those unfamiliar with the acronym.  Or the current pricing could be deflated based on resellers not willing to float the expense for 2 months.  

Last year for instance I considered the 400th Anniversary items for a potential flip.  Ultimately decided not to.  They they sold out in 30 minutes and I doubted how well I knew the hobby.  But here, 9 months later, you can get them on the secondary market for barely above issue price.  Seller's probably close to breaking even after fees.

 

[Zebo]

I didn't try for the CC or O, but decided to pick up the D & S. No issues with ordering. I'll see if I keep them after seeing them in hand. 

[jtryka]

I think I ordered some today, but I guess I'll find out for sure in October...

[Henri Charriere]

On 6/11/2021 at 1:55 PM, VKurtB said:

Funny, I was under the impression that our man Quintus was an ONLY sight unseen buyer, unless it's the number after the 'MS' on the label he's seeing. Like most registry men, it's all about the ink on the paper inside the plastic. The coin is just along for the ride. 

I did not see this post initially.  You are absolutely right!  For example, among the so-called "restrikes," not a single example of the last year minted, 1914, has been accorded MS-67 status.  If I were to get word one were available as graded by P- , from a reputable source, close examination is not necessary. 

I want to be a big shot like you with a pop 1/0 in my album, and a feather 🪶 in my cap.

[VKurtB]

On 8/3/2021 at 6:22 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I did not see this post initially.  You are absolutely right!  For example, among the so-called "restrikes," not a single example of the last year minted, 1914, has been accorded MS-67 status.  If I were to get word one were available as graded by P- , from a reputable source, close examination is not necessary. 

I want to be a big shot like you with a pop 1/0 in my album, and a feather 🪶 in my cap.

Believe me, my 1/0 coins are no big deal. They represent a niche’s niche among American collectors. I could go to Chicago next week and find two more 70’s, and I’d have all three of some 3/0 coins, and most people would just pass them by. How many 70’s like mine do I think are out there raw? Probably 200 or so.

Edited August 4, 2021 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:29 PM, VKurtB said:

Believe me, my 1/0 coins are no big deal. They represent a niche’s niche among American collectors. I could go to Chicago next week and find two more 70’s, and I’d have all three of some 3/0 coins, and most people would just pass them by. How many 70’s like mine do I think are out there raw? Probably 200 or so.

True, remember that feature in Reader's Digest called "Points to Ponder?" Well, this is one of them.  Ironically, the more 🐓 that get certified, the more "degraded" my compilation becomes.

At P- they maintain two lists: both the "current" and "all-time" finest.  I checked the latter going back to caveman times (no offense to @GBrad) and was frankly surprised the majority of names listed are practically the same as those listed today.  Interestingly, either no one had been collecting them, or the concept of lists are recent.

It has occurred to me that if I were to sell them, nobody would show up and interest in them would be minimal.  🐓

[World Colonial]

On 8/4/2021 at 9:49 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

True, remember that feature in Reader's Digest called "Points to Ponder?" Well, this is one of them.  Ironically, the more 🐓 that get certified, the more "degraded" my compilation becomes.

At P- they maintain two lists: both the "current" and "all-time" finest.  I checked the latter going back to caveman times (no offense to @GBrad) and was frankly surprised the majority of names listed are practically the same as those listed today.  Interestingly, either no one had been collecting them, or the concept of lists are recent.

It has occurred to me that if I were to sell them, nobody would show up and interest in them would be minimal.  🐓

There is little interest in "finest known" outside of US coinage; due to the holder label.  Where it does exist, it's almost certainly almost exclusively from a US based collector, if the premium is "meaningful".  There are some exceptions such as for South Africa but that's because South African collectors have a demonstrated preference for TPG which doesn't exist for almost any other country as is evident from the TPG data.

[Treeman]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:39 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I am 70, and I need to grow up?  I don't know how many rings you have in your tree but having lived through many uneventful times, when ordering from the U.S. Mint was a simple routine affordable procedure, I believe you to be a sapling posing as a tree.  There is no greater put-down than to dismiss those who simply wish to place an order on-line devoid of inconvenience and drama as simply never having wanted the product in the first place.

As one of quite a few who have voluntarily elected to no longer do business with the Mint, I have no agenda.  My only concern is if the hobby is lookinga for newcomers -- and keeping them, a slap in the face is not a recommended business model.  Where's that Mint memo proclaiming to all four corners of the earth that the problem highlighted by the debacle attendant to the recent distribution of the first pair of '21 dollars had been identified and corrected?

 

I'm 68, and have been a collector for the last 45 years. I don't understand how you cannot see that making modern coins a bit harder to get actually benefits the hobby. People love the chase, makes acquiring more satisfying. If nothing interesting comes out of the mint occasionally, the hobby will die. By the way, I meant "grow up" in the sense of accepting reality, not in actual age. No disrespect meant, as I am not "grown up" in many ways...

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/4/2021 at 11:17 AM, Treeman said:

I don't understand how you cannot see that making modern coins a bit harder to get actually benefits the hobby.

You're not taking into consideration that amount of YN's who got taken in on this Morgan fiasco and were kicked off the Mint Website like so much mulch.  Wonder if they'll stay in the coin hobby or look some where else.  Or perhaps they will make a career of collecting State Quarters.

[Henri Charriere]

[ @Treeman Little point in dignifying this soliloquy -- skewed unabashedly in favor of the speculator -- with a response, when a squad of Sanitation street sweepers are poised to discard the droppings.]

[VKurtB]

Well, I have a “CC” coming, and I’d trade it in a heartbeat for a D. When the D hit the system, I was dodging Alabama maniac drivers on I-65 near Birmingham. By the time I could pull over, the D’s were “not available.”

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/4/2021 at 12:20 PM, VKurtB said:

“not available.”

plus 'Order Cancelled' plus U.S. Mint = 

[Just Bob]

On 8/4/2021 at 11:20 AM, VKurtB said:

Well, I have a “CC” coming, and I’d trade it in a heartbeat for a D. When the D hit the system, I was dodging Alabama maniac drivers on I-65 near Birmingham. By the time I could pull over, the D’s were “not available.”

Be very careful where I-65 meets I-59/I-20. That is a seriously dangerous intersection. There have been some terrible wrecks there.

[Henri Charriere]

@VKurtB. Kindly add the above highway interchange, graciously provided by a fellow member, to the list of no fly/no drive locations I am busy compiling for your benefit.

[VKurtB]

On 8/4/2021 at 12:56 PM, Just Bob said:

Be very careful where I-65 meets I-59/I-20. That is a seriously dangerous intersection. There have been some terrible wrecks there.

The first time I encountered that (southbound to eastbound) I was truly frightened by the eastbound 59/20 driver aggression. Yesterday morning it was a much more benign experience. I had “pre-stretched” to be able to see over my right shoulder. I had to get across all five lanes within less than a mile. My wife’s post-op appt. 

When I moved to Alabama, my likelihood of dying in a heinous car crash probably tripled immediately. Also explains why every second ad on TV is an ambulance chasing lawyer  

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by VKurtB

[Zebo]

On 8/4/2021 at 12:20 PM, VKurtB said:

Well, I have a “CC” coming, and I’d trade it in a heartbeat for a D. When the D hit the system, I was dodging Alabama maniac drivers on I-65 near Birmingham. By the time I could pull over, the D’s were “not available.”

I have three Ds confirmed -- if you'd like to swap. That's fine by me. I didn't try for a CC -- not crazy about the privy mark. 

[Henri Charriere]

[Not exactly sure where this fits in following the earlier brouhaha, but that article published today in COIN WEEK about bullion coin auctions to be held by the U.S. Mint suits me just fine.  Kudos to the anonymous back-office worker who came up with that idea.]   👏   🐓

[VKurtB]

On 8/4/2021 at 9:57 PM, Zebo said:

I have three Ds confirmed -- if you'd like to swap. That's fine by me. I didn't try for a CC -- not crazy about the privy mark. 

If you’re serious, we can arrange details by PM when they ship. I think the CC will remain popular and perhaps earn you a higher premium, but that’s not what interests me.  My son will be living in Denver, … PENNSYLVANIA. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by VKurtB