2021 Morgan Dollars 1 1

[Alex in PA.]

Yeak Governor Woof is still around.  

[VKurtB]

6 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Yeak Governor Woof is still around.  

Woofie’s worst problem is he listens to his senior staff far too much. They’re nuts. 

[VKurtB]

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Let's see... 750 miles each way. 1,500 miles round- trip.  I wonder if you are aware that's only 3-1/2 miles less than driving from BOSTON, MA to MIAMI, FL, which takes 22 hrs. and 25 minutes, basically a day, presumably non-stop or with rotating drivers and pit stops!

Not to cast hasty aspersions on your good name, but weren't you the same member who good-naturedly questioned whether our ever-upbeat GoldFinger1969 was perhaps a bit "obsessed" with his focused interest in double-eagles?      🤔

Nevertheless, I wish you all the best in your quest to find that elusive piece that rumor has it will effectively satiate your thirst for "the one that got away," once and for all, firmly and with finality.  

The round trip to my old home is 23 hours of actual driving, yes. I believe I’ve done it about 20 times so far. If I can do it for a 3-day weekend (Memorial Day 2019), I can do it for a good Pennsylvania coin auction. 
 

Plus, I’ve done several non-stop trips to the Indianapolis 500 over the years. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I have a passport and a completed COVID vaccination card, so Governor Wolf can just bite me. 
 

The quadrilateral defined by the vertices of Reading, Lancaster, York, and maybe Selinsgrove is as close to numismatic heaven as exists. 

The Golden Quadrilateral. I read about the one in India, a modern road network connecting some of India's largest cities, but what intrigues me most about yours is its uncanny ability to defy the Law of Supply and Demand.  Then again, it makes perfect sense. People pass on, and those to whom they leave their unappreciated and unwanted possessions go to places where they can dispose of their treasures to those who recognize their value outright or otherwise have the time, interest and inclination to investigate the matter of their true worth further.

You are a true coin connoisseur, a gentleman and consummate professional.

[Alex in PA.]

11 hours ago, VKurtB said:

They’re nuts. 

Harrisburg was just like an asylum during this Covid craze.  Some of the stuff the Woof and his 'dream team' came up with about destroyed our little town's economy.   

[Alex in PA.]

11 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I can do it for a good Pennsylvania coin auction. 

Good hunting and, if possible, give me a short summary of how it went.  Thanks.

[jtryka]

Well here's an interesting development, received this e-mail from the mint overnight:

Dear Valued Customer,

The United States Mint is committed to providing the best possible online experience to its customers. The global silver shortage has driven demand for many of our bullion and numismatic products to record heights. This level of demand is felt most acutely by the Mint during the initial product release of numismatic items. Most recently in the pre-order window for 2021 Morgan Dollar with Carson City privy mark (21XC) and New Orleans privy mark (21XD), the extraordinary volume of web traffic caused significant numbers of Mint customers to experience website anomalies that resulted in their inability to complete transactions.

In the interest of properly rectifying the situation, the Mint is postponing the pre-order windows for the remaining 2021 Morgan and Peace silver dollars that were originally scheduled for June 1 (Morgan Dollars struck at Denver (21XG) and San Francisco (21XF)) and June 7 (Morgan Dollar struck at Philadelphia (21XE) and the Peace Dollar (21XH)). While inconvenient to many, this deliberate delay will give the Mint the time necessary to obtain web traffic management tools to enhance the user experience. As the demand for silver remains greater than the supply, the reality is such that not everyone will be able to purchase a coin. However, we are confident that during the postponement, we will be able to greatly improve on our ability to deliver the utmost positive U.S. Mint experience that our customers deserve. We will announce revised pre-order launch dates as soon as possible.

Thank you for a being a United States Mint customer.

[Alex in PA.]

46 minutes ago, jtryka said:

The global silver shortage has driven demand for many of our bullion and numismatic products to record heights.

Who is kidding who on this?  I can find not other place, business, treasury, country or mint that is suffering a silver shortage.

pinehurstcoins.com

[Crawtomatic]

1 hour ago, Alex in PA. said:

Who is kidding who on this?  I can find not other place, business, treasury, country or mint that is suffering a silver shortage.

pinehurstcoins.com

Eh, I suspect they're dumbing it down by calling it a global shortage.  The alternative would be to explain spot price vs. physical price and silver futures to the masses when that's not the point of the email.

[Fenntucky Mike]

1 hour ago, Alex in PA. said:

Who is kidding who on this?  I can find not other place, business, treasury, country or mint that is suffering a silver shortage.

For whatever reason people appear to be buying more PM, not that I think this is the cause for the demand of these releases, and I don't think The Mint is blaming a planchet/silver shortage for hitting the pause button on the other releases but rather demand for the paltry 175k mintage and the subsequent train wreck this causes on their website and the ordering process.

I will give the Mint credit though as it seems that they have been increasing mintages for similar products, 2019-S En Rev Pf - 30k, 2020 V75 ASE - 75k, 2021 Morgan - 175k and 2021 Peace 200k.

[VKurtB]

43 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

For whatever reason people appear to be buying more PM, not that I think this is the cause for the demand of these releases, and I don't think The Mint is blaming a planchet/silver shortage for hitting the pause button on the other releases but rather demand for the paltry 175k mintage and the subsequent train wreck this causes on their website and the ordering process.

I will give the Mint credit though as it seems that they have been increasing mintages for similar products, 2019-S En Rev Pf - 30k, 2020 V75 ASE - 75k, 2021 Morgan - 175k and 2021 Peace 200k.

And if they made it “mint to order”, meaning no opportunity for “flippers”, it would likely sell LESS.

[VKurtB]

3 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

Harrisburg was just like an asylum during this Covid craze.  Some of the stuff the Woof and his 'dream team' came up with about destroyed our little town's economy.   

And now that creature of a Health Secretary is Biden’s and the nation’s problem, not just Pennsylvania’s.

[World Colonial]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

And if they made it “mint to order”, meaning no opportunity for “flippers”, it would likely sell LESS.

Probably

Per our prior post exchange, it's unlikely  there are (anywhere near) enough actual collectors to absorb the supply as a collectible, substantially or mostly as a substitute "investment".  175,000 for each of the five is not low. It's extremely common.  

Comparing this mintage to the supply of real Morgan dollars, the two just sold are already as or more expensive than numerous date/MM combinations in grades up to MS-66.

Are these two (soon to be five) really more interesting to collectors than Morgan dollars actually struck for circulation?  How many individual date/MM Morgan dollars are owned by anywhere near 175,000 collectors?  

Same line of reasoning for the "low" mintage ASE.  The mintage is low but the number of survivors in this quality concurrently make all of it more common than over 99% of all coins ever struck.

[Fenntucky Mike]

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

And if they made it “mint to order”, meaning no opportunity for “flippers”, it would likely sell LESS.

True, but I think the mintage could have been doubled with a household limit of 10 and these would have still sold out in a day. The Mint needs to work on their sales projections in addition to their website. Based on the first two Morgan Commemoratives the Peace even with a higher mintage will be a bigger headache with only one issue.

[JT2]

Just waiting until the FUN show in July.  Florida is open for bussiness!!!  I am not going to fret over the loss of one of these commems ...........they will bne around when i want one if i even like them.  I think that since i missed out on them i will turn my dollars to something better.  at the EBay going rate i can by a few MS 6 6 linconlns from the 20's or 30's   sink it into so FB mercs or even some really nice silver washingtons.  I will difernt my hard earned money elsewhere.

[Henri Charriere]

1 hour ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

True, but I think the mintage could have been doubled with a household limit of 10 and these would have still sold out in a day. The Mint needs to work on their sales projections in addition to their website. Based on the first two Morgan Commemoratives the Peace even with a higher mintage will be a bigger headache with only one issue.

This is another political patronage spot staffed with those incapable of anticipating demand clearly in over their head. All pre-orders cancelled?  And what, may I ask, was their Plan B?  Incompetent, the whole lot of them -- in league with their "authorized" dealers and distributors. If there are no violent objections, I should like to be accorded the honor of being recognized officially as Boycotter Number:   000,000,001.

[Henri Charriere]

15 hours ago, jtryka said:

Well here's an interesting development, received this e-mail from the mint overnight:

Dear Valued Customer,

The United States Mint is committed to providing the best possible online experience to its customers.....

Thank you for a being a United States Mint customer.

To my knowledge, the Mint hasn't taken a hint seriously in twenty years. Let's not all pretend we have never heard of instant sell-outs and difficulties experienced by members in making the simplest of on-line transactions. Many years ago, pre-internet, I sent them five money orders costing 25 cents apiece (I don't recall the total) for a 4-piece gold set which was accepted, deposited in a bank, and shortly thereafter received a communique briefly informing me the item was out-of-stock and my money was being returned.  Apparently the Mint is so compartmentalized that they take your money and then check their inventory. Thet sent me one Treasury check I could do only two things with: open a bank account and deposit it, or take it to a check-cashing place which charged me $73 and change to cash. It cost me $74.50 to try to buy something I never had a chance of getting. From that day on, the Mint has left a bad taste in my mouth.  

[World Colonial]

My inference from all accounts I read on coin forums and Coin Week is that the Mint's management would rather not bother with collectors and collector coinage. 

Congress passes legislation requiring them to do it but it's not something they actually want to do.  They do not view it as core to the Mint's mission and not being collector's themselves (overwhelmingly), view it as a distraction or nuisance.

If this is a reasonably accurate description, none of it should be a surprise.

[Alex in PA.]

15 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

recognized officially as Boycotter Number:   000,000,001.

Please list me as Number 2.  Don't have a Mint Account, haven't bought a US Mint product since I bought that piece of bullion formerly known as the 'Old San Francisco Dollar'.  Who needs the US Mint when we have EBay the wonderful????

[FroggyHopper]

On 5/29/2021 at 7:30 AM, World Colonial said:

My inference from all accounts I read on coin forums and Coin Week is that the Mint's management would rather not bother with collectors and collector coinage. 

Congress passes legislation requiring them to do it but it's not something they actually want to do.  They do not view it as core to the Mint's mission and not being collector's themselves (overwhelmingly), view it as a distraction or nuisance.

If this is a reasonably accurate description, none of it should be a surprise.

I doubt this. Collectors & dealers are a massive money generator for the mint. They just don’t want to deal with “people” in general because...well they’re government. Not too big on the people skills. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by FrogHopper

[Alex in PA.]

In the eyes of the United States Mint managers there is no such thing as a 'Coin Collector' any more.  These fabricated 'rarities' that the US Mint has been producing are not made for the common citizen.  This is just another US Government Agency gone bad.  Here is a complaint from 2020; just one of hundreds of complaints:

"I have had the same experience on several occasions. To further confuse the issue recently the wwii coin was released.

I logged in ten minutes before the release time and was kicked off exactly the time of the release. The coin was selling for about 150. 00. I checked eBay about two hours later and the coin was for sale for about 1000.00.

Yesterday I noted that APMEX is selling hundreds of the coins for about 1300.00. Something is really wrong here."

[Alex in PA.]

They're still going at it on the other forums.  The US Mint 'Apologists' and the US Mint 'Haters'.  Every time a 'Hater' sticks his/her head up with a complaint about the 2021 Morgan "CC Privy Mark" a small group of 'Apologists' will rise up saying how the US Mint will 'fix' everything and there's 'more' to come.  Really entertaining.  

[VKurtB]

Listen, I’ve spoken in person with people who work for the Mint. They are utterly clueless about the industry they serve numismatically. Yes, maybe there are some technical experts among them, but not in decision making. When they decided to say out loud that the gold dime, quarter, and half dollar would be 1/10, 1/4, and 1/2 ounce respectively but be the same size as their historical counterpart, I knew they were talking crazy, because the specific gravity of gold makes that impossible. They refused to acknowledge that. If they can’t think even that deeply, they truly are useless.

[jtryka]

Well this is classic, apparently the Mint overlooked the memo from the COMEX that there is plenty of silver, in fact they will soon be using it for pavement there is so much just lying around, so there is no silver shortage!

In a message released Friday, May 28, we made reference to a global shortage of silver. In more precise terms, the silver shortage being experienced by the United States Mint pertains only to the supply of silver blanks among suppliers to the U.S. Mint.

What a joke...

[World Colonial]

3 hours ago, FrogHopper said:

I doubt this. Collectors & dealers are a massive money generator for the mint. They just don’t want to deal with “people” in general because...well they’re government. Not too big on the people skills. 

Are US Mint employees compensated on profits and if so, is it meaningful to them?

Never heard that they are and if so, doubt it makes much difference to their compensation.  I don't believe they care about the profitability, except to the extent that it gets someone else off their back.

My guess is that they would rather deal with dealers and wholesalers because there are fewer of them and presumably less of an annoyance.

Reading coin forums and posts in Coin Week, I wouldn't want to deal with the collecting public either.  Mostly complaints where I see no possibility to satisfy most of them.  The buyers want the impossible.  They want low(er) mintage coins which are always available to them (often in multiple for "flipping") and don't lose value in the secondary market.  

[RWB]

As noted elsewhere and now corrected by the US Mint:

"In a message released Friday, May 28, we made reference to a global shortage of silver. In more precise terms, the silver shortage being experienced by the United States Mint pertains only to the supply of silver blanks among suppliers to the U.S. Mint."

[VKurtB]

2 hours ago, World Colonial said:

Are US Mint employees compensated on profits and if so, is it meaningful to them?

No, they are union employees.

[VKurtB]

1 hour ago, RWB said:

the silver shortage being experienced by the United States Mint pertains only to the supply of silver blanks among suppliers to the U.S. Mint.

Be sure to tell that to Scott Barman over at coinsblog.ws. He's having trouble understanding.

[gmarguli]

2 hours ago, RWB said:

As noted elsewhere and now corrected by the US Mint:

"In a message released Friday, May 28, we made reference to a global shortage of silver. In more precise terms, the silver shortage being experienced by the United States Mint pertains only to the supply of silver blanks among suppliers to the U.S. Mint."

Gee, I wonder what would have happened if the US Mint had offered $1 more per blank? Think that they would have been able to buy hundreds of thousands more as they outbid the other buyers? And then they could have easily passed that extra $1 in cost off to the customer?

Come on, we all know that they intentionally under-produced these to create demand. 

[World Colonial]

3 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Be sure to tell that to Scott Barman over at coinsblog.ws. He's having trouble understanding.

Wouldn't be because he doesn't want to understand , would it?  No, that would never happen.