1881 Indian 1c ...tone & query question 1 1

[EdG_Ohio]

I was going through coins I purchased 6-8-10 months...dunno haha but as I was trying to determine a possible grade and read up about on it online I noticed at a certain angle it has a toned appearance, more so in center of Obv and on wheat on Rev. A straight on shot shows pretty much a BN coin.
  I'm not concerned about the grade but I am curious about the toning, does this appear natural in the making ? and also on the Obv along the cheek and flat surface does this appear to be rubbing/cleaning ?
    I tried my best to get a decent image(s) of toning and a few images have some excess reflection but I think you can see what I'm talking about. I do like the coin itself and may hang on to it as I'm starting to lose interest in Morgans and shifting my interests elsewhere.

Thanks for looking, look forward to responses.
Ed G.

[MarkFeld]

Unfortunately, the coin exhibits a highly unnatural, cleaned appearance. That is not natural color for an Indian cent.

[EdG_Ohio]

I don't doubt you for a second. Can a coin of this nature get a toned appearance at all and to this extent ?  The 2 lower sets of images reflected the light harshly but the excessive toning is present as mentioned.
Just learning and trying to understand this part of collecting. Trying to differentiate on what is good and bad toning or if it should even exist on a coin like this at all.
Thanks

[MarkFeld]

Yes, coins of that type can tone to that extent. I’d suggest looking at lots of on-line images of NGC and PCGS BN and RB mint state Indian cents. And for that matter, look at images of “uncirculated details, cleaned” examples, too. You’ll hopefully start to get a feel for what such coins are supposed to look like.

[JT2]

I have found that on the Indian cent series if you find a BN unc coin it can exhibit very vibrant aqua and magentas They are absolutely beautiful when they get this way.  For an exceptionally beautiful coin try a really nice PF BN   they can get extremely beautiful in this condition.

[EdG_Ohio]

So, I researched some at various locations and don't feel nearly as bad about this as before but....

....there are numerous examples of toning like this some great looking pieces some not so much.
Some of the images were graded by NGC and PCGS and a couple raw and were in better MS grades than mine but still show a vast range of toning. One site suggested that this occurred when in storage they were in a stacked position and the ensuing change happened, I will read up more on that soon.
I'll try to get some better images of mine now that I have some daylight, my preferred choice is overcast skies, and not a overhead light.
It appears the BN type when shot straight on doesn't get the appearance of toning that much as shown in the last 3 images(same coin)
Some examples:
 

[JKK]

You posted two different image sets of your original coin. Which one does it actually look like?

Certainly IHPs can tone; no one doubts that. The question is about the toning of yours. Right now there is some confusion as to whether your coin looks like the first images or the second. If the first, doesn't look toned, does have some sort of odd area in the obverse face field, looks a little light in color for its age and condition, makes me wonder about an old cleaning. If the second, that's a very strange color in the possible-but-unlikely category. Makes me wonder about AT after a major soaking.

[EdG_Ohio]

57 minutes ago, JKK said:

You posted two different image sets of your original coin. Which one does it actually look like?

Certainly IHPs can tone; no one doubts that. The question is about the toning of yours. Right now there is some confusion as to whether your coin looks like the first images or the second. If the first, doesn't look toned, does have some sort of odd area in the obverse face field, looks a little light in color for its age and condition, makes me wonder about an old cleaning. If the second, that's a very strange color in the possible-but-unlikely category. Makes me wonder about AT after a major soaking.

The very 1st set of images are from a straight over the top angle(w/black background), the 2 sets proceeding are me attempting to get a better angle that reflects the toning I saw but with the fluorescent lighting it gave a xtra bright reflection of the toning.

Just now took 2 pics with natural sunlight, Obv shows it better at what I see in hand, still can't get the right angle for Rev but the lighter area on wheat's is where I see the toning the most there.
  Hard to take pic with coin in hand and use Gal. 8+ phone
Thanks for looking.
 

[JKK]

I recognize that it's hard, but that difficulty doesn't change the fact that one can only judge what one sees as presented. The new pics look too strange to assess, so I'll have to decline offering input on something I don't think I'm seeing with clarity relative to the posed question.

[Just Bob]

I obviously do not have the coin in hand as you do, but, if I were going to make a judgement call based on the photos you have provided, I would call it "cleaned and re-toned."

 

By the way, "Blue Indians" were very controversial not that many years ago. If you are interested, I am sure there are several threads here and ATS that you could find on the subject.

[MarkFeld]

As different as they look, all of the pictures indicate that the coin has been cleaned and that the color is not original.

[James_OldeTowne]

The appearance is unnatural, going only by the photos.