Lighting techniques for coin photography - updated 1 1

[Alex in PA.]

Wow!  Do people really spend hundreds, or thousands, of dollars on camera equipment to take loving pictures of coins they buy?  I'm just amazed.  I have PCGS True View and NGC Coin Imaging that does that for me for a relatively minor fee.

Well, what ever turns you on I guess.  Photography is a profession but this sounds like an obsession.  And from the tone of the past few Threads I'm not feeling the love here anymore.    I wonder if there will be another migration like before.

[RWB]

41 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Wow!  Do people really spend hundreds, or thousands, of dollars on camera equipment to take loving pictures of coins they buy?  I'm just amazed.  I have PCGS True View and NGC Coin Imaging that does that for me for a relatively minor fee.

In an era when people pass around photos of their interests, it's expected that they will feature the hobbies and other interests -- in addition to the family dog, and flowers. Taking your own coin photos is one of the few remaining hands-on parts of coin collecting, and it allows collectors to share details with others in near real-time. It doesn't take a lot of money to make good photos, but it requires patience and attention to detail. Naturally, one can spend a lot on photo equipment and still take awful photos, just as a lot can be spent on slider coins that "look uncirculated" to the inexperienced.

The TPGs do a find job with their photos, but do-it-yourself is necessary for all those raw coins and new discoveries. Anyway, knowing "How" to do something does not mean you "Must" do something.

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, Alex in PA. said:

Well, what ever turns you on I guess.  Photography is a profession but this sounds like an obsession.  And from the tone of the past few Threads I'm not feeling the love here anymore.    I wonder if there will be another migration like before.

Photography an obsession - you bet, Same as coin collecting. You want to improve your collection just as you want to take better photographs of it. Most of us (generally speaking and making an assumption) who are interested in macro-photography probably already have semi-expensive camera equipment that we use in other endeavors. While a macro lens can be expensive, there are other cheaper ways to obtain similar results. 

I appreciate Brandon, Kurt, Skip and Roger's contributions - I just skip over some of the back and forth... 

 

[VKurtB]

5 hours ago, brg5658 said:

Thank you Roger.  A select few members here seem to confuse “more content” with “helpful/useful content”...

I hope to hear from others specifically about coin photography challenges and helpful suggestions. 

I specifically am interested in particular lighting lamps. I get the placement thing. Been doing that for decades. 

[Insider]

5 hours ago, brg5658 said:

Thank you Roger.  A select few members here seem to confuse “more content” with “helpful/useful content”...

I hope to hear from others specifically about coin photography challenges and helpful suggestions. 

I though I gave you a "like" for the OP before I posted a "tip."  I see that  it didn't register and that's because we are only allowed a small number of  "likes" to use each day and I give them out to my limit. 

I suggested tilting a coin because it WORKS.  You disagreed.  I made my suggestion because 80% of my images are made by tilting the coin and rotating it in the light so that what I wish to show is very clear.  It has nothing to do with white balance or color.  As I said before,  EVERYONE photographing a coin SHOULD KNOW they can hide most things on coins by changing the type of light, the direction of light , rotating the coin, or tipping it at an angle.  We see many comments about this with images posted on Ebay.  If I need to prove I can hide something even when viewed at high power to those who disagree I shall.   Read my column (from someone virtually ignorant on digital photography) on that subject.  

Apparently, you disagree with my "tip."   This is a place for learning and teaching.  When someone disagrees with anything I post - game on!  Prove me wrong,** I'll concede, and thank you for correcting my misinformation.  You'll notice I don't ever run from a question or discussion.  Unfortunately, there is one or two of you who do it constantly on most discussions I've had with them.  Perhaps you know who they are.  The sarcastic way I discuss things with folks who challenge my posts and the barbaric "example" I used (I'm half Arab) to convey how I would carry out an execution in a reply got me banned at the ATS because the "snowflakes" couldn't stomach reality.  I started to use a similar example in a reply to a member here about prepared citizens but wisely did not.   

**  Something I've posted has been corrected three times on various forums and it is very embarrassing; however, it is good for me and others posting OPINIONS to know what's "right."

 

PS  This week I will post an image or several showing the entire coin.  We are very busy and I'll need to get the images I take sent to my computer.  I'm going to try very hard to do this ASAP.  I've made a promise so please give me all the time I'll need.  If what I think I can do actually works, it will be a very interesting addition and challenge to this discussion.  The blood is in the water.   

Edited October 17, 2020 by Insider

[brg5658]

[Insider]

11 minutes ago, brg5658 said:

Go ahead and ruin my weekend.  I hope I can do as well.  You've got me very worried now as I will not know until I take my first shot this week.

[Insider]

I just read the OP and the opinions posted by others - again.  

Since it has been stated several times that a digital camera does not have a large depth of field (I'll see for myself this week) that may explain why I can get a totally in focus image with a coin tilted at  20 degrees - because the area I image is extremely small.    

[brg5658]

A few of my favorite British Ladies... 

[VKurtB]

1 hour ago, Insider said:

I just read the OP and the opinions posted by others - again.  

Since it has been stated several times that a digital camera does not have a large depth of field (I'll see for myself this week) that may explain why I can get a totally in focus image with a coin tilted at  20 degrees - because the area I image is extremely small.    

The bigger the sensor, the worse the depth of field thing gets. Medium format is worse than 24x36, and 24x36 is worse than APS-size. As you get tinier, the depth of field improves. But other things "go to heck".

[Fullhorn]

Here is my set up

[Insider]

Looks like a ring light is the only way to go.  

[Fullhorn]

1 hour ago, Insider said:

Looks like a ring light is the only way to go.  

I like it. The light has the ability to shut off half of the ring. That is what I do in almost all the coin pics I take. I usually leave the top half on to create a shadow down across the portrait. Using the entire ring of lights gives an unnatural look. I don't think I have any examples of that look though.

Edit: I found a couple of uncropped shots. You can see the ring reflected in the slab. The full ring doesn't look too shabby on this one. The dark toning helps. Usually it looks kind of like an X-ray or a negative with the full ring.

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Fullhorn
new s*** came to light

[Coinbuf]

Just one thing to note on the lighting as presented in @brg5658's op.  The Jansjo lights are no longer available from Ikea, those have been phased out and there is a new light they carry that is similar but not exactly the same.

 

14 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

Wow!  Do people really spend hundreds, or thousands, of dollars on camera equipment to take loving pictures of coins they buy?  I'm just amazed.  I have PCGS True View and NGC Coin Imaging that does that for me for a relatively minor fee.

Well, what ever turns you on I guess.  Photography is a profession but this sounds like an obsession.  And from the tone of the past few Threads I'm not feeling the love here anymore.    I wonder if there will be another migration like before.

Do they, yes in some cases that is correct, however it is not necessary to take out a new mortgage to get a very good coin imaging system.

Simple and effective 

[VKurtB]

2 hours ago, Fullhorn said:

I like it. The light has the ability to shut off half of the ring. That is what I do in almost all the coin pics I take. I usually leave the top half on to create a shadow down across the portrait. Using the entire ring of lights gives an unnatural look. I don't think I have any examples of that look though.

Edit: I found a couple of uncropped shots. You can see the ring reflected in the slab. The full ring doesn't look too shabby on this one. The dark toning helps. Usually it looks kind of like an X-ray or a negative with the full ring.

 

Yes, these have good uses. Mine can independently light quadrants. I’m not so impressed with the LED experience though. I wish I had gooseneck lights like @brg5658’s on quite a few occasions. Maybe after the move to ‘Bama. 
 

What saves the LED’s is that they don’t have to be at the 90, 180, 270, and 360 positions. The whole circle can be offset any amount I want.

Sometimes finding the exact adapters I need for a particular lens can get a little tedious.

Edited October 18, 2020 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

8 hours ago, Fullhorn said:

Here is my set up

Fullhorn,

Is your column raised or lowered by hand or by crank? Is it “geared”?

Edited October 18, 2020 by VKurtB

[coinsandmedals]

@brg5658 do you have a recommendation for the translucent plastic? I see a ton of options on Amazon. 

[Fullhorn]

7 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Fullhorn,

Is your column raised or lowered by hand or by crank? Is it “geared”?

By hand, an old school copy stand off of Craigs List for $40

[brg5658]

2 hours ago, coinsandmedals said:

@brg5658 do you have a recommendation for the translucent plastic? I see a ton of options on Amazon. 

Any translucent or mostly transparent plastic that can be easily rolled and then squished on one end and taped will work well. I believe mine are made from the fronts of these below (<$5 for a 6-pack on Amazon). You should be able to get at least 3 little deflector/diffuser thingamajigs from one.  
 

I cut a strip that is about 3.5 inches on one side, and the circumference of the light plus a little on the other side.  Roll into a tube and tape it.  Squish down one end of the tube and tape it. Insert a piece of white reflective copy paper on the inside of the top of the tube, and black construction paper on the outside top of the tube.  They give me some softening of the Jansjo lamps by deflecting the light off of the white paper area, and avoid shining the point source LED phosphors directly at the coin’s surface. 

[brg5658]

3 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

Just one thing to note on the lighting as presented in @brg5658's op.  The Jansjo lights are no longer available from Ikea, those have been phased out and there is a new light they carry that is similar but not exactly the same.

This is good to know.  I bought several when they were available, and none of mine I originally bought > 10 years ago have gone out yet. I think I have 6 brand new ones somewhere still also. 
 

It appears the new equivalents are called NÄVLINGE? Link here. Once this pandemic is a bit more under control I may need to go grab a few of these newer ones and see if they a comparable to the Jansjo line.  

[Zebo]

I see most if not all of the examples photos provided in this and other threads are mostly of silver and sometimes copper coins. Any glamour shots of gold? What about recommendations for taking photos of gold in slabs? 

[brg5658]

3 hours ago, Zebo said:

I see most if not all of the examples photos provided in this and other threads are mostly of silver and sometimes copper coins. Any glamour shots of gold? What about recommendations for taking photos of gold in slabs? 

I do not collect gold - I have only one gold numismatic item among all of my roughly 800 graded coins, tokens, and medals. However, I have photographed a few gold items for others.  In my limited experience, Gold photographs very similar to brass in terms of color and luster. Gold rarely tones - and when it does, from impurities in the alloy or from good old circulated “gunk” it’s almost never dark.  

Below is my only gold piece - an official restrike of an Austrian 2 Ducat. I’m sure others can offer more examples of photos of gold.

[coinsandmedals]

@brg5658 thanks for the tip!

You can still find a small usb version of the Jansjö lights at Ikea. I have one but I don’t find it particularly useful. The Nävlinge lights are nice but slightly larger than their predecessors. My biggest issue with them was trying to diffuse the light. I’ll order the translucent plastic tonight and give the cone diffusers a shot. 

[brg5658]

35 minutes ago, coinsandmedals said:

@brg5658 thanks for the tip!

You can still find a small usb version of the Jansjö lights at Ikea. I have one but I don’t find it particularly useful. The Nävlinge lights are nice but slightly larger than their predecessors. My biggest issue with them was trying to diffuse the light. I’ll order the translucent plastic tonight and give the cone diffusers a shot. 

Honestly, I think your images are fantastic! Please post some here if/when you change things, and post some of your pics now.  Really good quality images! 
 

 

[coinsandmedals]

@brg5658 thank you for the words of encouragement! I love the look of your 1892 1/2 crown. I find toned and prooflike coins to be the most difficult to photograph. I tend to be a bit critical of my images, but here are a few that I find tolerable. 

[RWB]

On 10/17/2020 at 12:18 PM, Insider said:

I just read the OP and the opinions posted by others - again.  

Since it has been stated several times that a digital camera does not have a large depth of field (I'll see for myself this week) that may explain why I can get a totally in focus image with a coin tilted at  20 degrees - because the area I image is extremely small.    

Depth of field (depth of focus) is controlled by aperture and magnification. That's all. It really should be called "depth of acceptable focus."

[VKurtB]

11 hours ago, RWB said:

Depth of field (depth of focus) is controlled by aperture and magnification. That's all. It really should be called "depth of acceptable focus."

Exception: some manufacturers did make "tilt and shift" lenses that can alter focal planes like a view camera can. Canon sticks out as an example. I have one in my gear that's in storage. It was from the FD lens series before the EOS line, when the cameras were F-1, EF, FTb, and the AE-1, AT-1, A-1 series. All Canon lenses, of ALL series, can be easily fitted to "mirrorless" SLR's, such as the Sony [alpha} 6000 series. I literally have not found any 35mm film camera lens that can't be adapted to the Sony line, including both rangefinder and reflex Leicas.

Edited October 19, 2020 by VKurtB

[Insider]

12 hours ago, RWB said:

Depth of field (depth of focus) is controlled by aperture and magnification. That's all. It really should be called "depth of acceptable focus."

Thanks, I'll bet this is true for digital cameras also.   

[brg5658]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:18 AM, Insider said:

I just read the OP and the opinions posted by others - again.  

Since it has been stated several times that a digital camera does not have a large depth of field (I'll see for myself this week) that may explain why I can get a totally in focus image with a coin tilted at  20 degrees - because the area I image is extremely small.    

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner here!  I think you're on to something... 

If the part of the coin you are photographing has a very small delta between the nearest and farthest part of the coin, then your required DOF is very small (tilt to your hearts content, so long as the little part of the coin you want show is in focus).

However, if a full coin is tilted, and you intend to image the full coin - the delta between the farthest part of the full coin and nearest part of the full coin is what dictates whether the full coin will be in focus.  You can tilt the full coin, but you will need to do special things to process the images in software (focus stacking) or use a special lens to get a final in focus full coin image (tilt-shift lens).  I will try to post an example of focus stacking here so people can understand what it's doing. 

[Insider]

4 hours ago, brg5658 said:

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner here!  I think you're on to something... 

If the part of the coin you are photographing has a very small delta between the nearest and farthest part of the coin, then your required DOF is very small (tilt to your hearts content, so long as the little part of the coin you want show is in focus).

However, if a full coin is tilted, and you intend to image the full coin - the delta between the farthest part of the full coin and nearest part of the full coin is what dictates whether the full coin will be in focus.  You can tilt the full coin, but you will need to do special things to process the images in software (focus stacking) or use a special lens to get a final in focus full coin image (tilt-shift lens).  I will try to post an example of focus stacking here so people can understand what it's doing. 

 

Are you from Texas?  I see a "Hook-em Horns" emoji.

What you could do for us that would save time (I trust you) until I do it would be to image a full coin with a digital camera that is tilted to the light.