Could this be a new discovery of a Roosevelt dime with a special matte finish
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Hello everyone.  I just recently found out from a local coin and antique auctioneer that i may have discovered what could be known as the only Roosevelt dime with a matte finish or some other form of special frosted finish ...

Now the coin weighs between 2.2 and 2.3 grams.  And has a even FROSTED finish on both sides of the coin and the edges are COMPLETELY NORMAL like every other a clad dime in the world and is UNEFFECTED by the frosted finish .  Which I'm very happy to say rules out all the infamous environmental damage theories. 😏 

Additionally ... im also told that since there is no other known Roosevelt dimes in the world that has this unique finish and no collector has one in their collection that the coin is not only very rare but it would also be PRICELESS.  And so im hoping that someone could help shed a little light as to how this could have possibly happened at the mint ?20200722_152910.thumb.jpg.9daabd4e03b914b6ca83678334d8c179.jpg20200723_181920.thumb.jpg.6b18d1cd17e8fbf7c5c4479e4caccac4.jpgScreenshot_20200716-162459_Gallery.thumb.jpg.72b9a5d1a3991837c98aef763e9d28c4.jpg

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Edited by RichieRich2020
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That appears to be environmental damage and not something done at the mint.

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Here are the items you need to create more like this:

a) an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner

b) a fairly acidic solution to put into a) above

c) a soft cotton something or other to line the bottom of the cleaner

d) a day or two

 

Presto! Matte coin.

 

I used some junk foreign coins to do mine, not a perfectly good dime.

Edited by VKurtB
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20 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Here are the items you need to create more like this:

a) an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner

b) a fairly acidic solution to put into a) above

c) a soft cotton something or other to line the bottom of the cleaner

d) a day or two

 

Presto! Matte coin.

 

I used some junk foreign coins to do mine, not a perfectly good dime.

First of all  . Thank you for your insight into the hot topic  . But you see the only OBVIOUS problem that I'm having with it is . The coin edges are completely clad and copper and clearly totally unaffected like the rest of the coin with a FROSTED Matte finish . And not to mention (((((((ASSUMING)))))))) that someone took the time to change the coins finish without affecting the coins edges woulf be TOTALLY SPECULATIVE AT BEST . But again . Thank you for your opinion and your knowledge on how someone could possibly duplicate a matte finish on a coin if they chose to do so . 

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Hopefully genuine coin enthusiasts reading this who wish to actually learn will learn from our conversations as they will learn from the Pcgs coin grade I received of my MS 66 grade despite coin Experts with yearssssss of experience stating it wouldn't grade no higher then a MS 62 .... and I am by far no EXPERT ... And also Please note : PCGS informed that I could resubmit the coin for reconsideration on the grade as well . So to all coin enthusiasts welcome to the real world of coin experts ....   😂😂😂😂20200728_060938.thumb.jpg.199a2fde2e9f0fffd8060bd6fef7c7fe.jpg

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Well, RR2020, you are correct about one thing - many, if not most, so-called experts will often "downgrade" very common coins, almost by habit. "Oh, that's a 62 at best!" But it's not; it's much higher. The older and more engrained they are with the way grading was in the late 1980's, the more that will be the case. Today, a 62 is a VERY ugly coin, and in many cases, it's not even mint state at all, in the technical grade. It's a VERY VERY high end AU quite often. These changes are fairly recent, and most guys hate change, or hate acknowledging it.

So what is your 1963-D MS66RD worth? My " go to" source says about $55 wholesale, more or less. It also shows a down arrow, indicating falling price.

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25 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Well, RR2020, you are correct about one thing - many, if not most, so-called experts will often "downgrade" very common coins, almost by habit. "Oh, that's a 62 at best!" But it's not; it's much higher. The older and more engrained they are with the way grading was in the late 1980's, the more that will be the case. Today, a 62 is a VERY ugly coin, and in many cases, it's not even mint state at all, in the technical grade. It's a VERY VERY high end AU quite often. These changes are fairly recent, and most guys hate change, or hate acknowledging it.

So what is your 1963-D MS66RD worth? My " go to" source says about $55 wholesale, more or less. It also shows a down arrow, indicating falling price.

Well after reading your reply.... i guess that you might have missed the main point entirely the same way that alot of the people missed the fact that edges of the coin does not even have the same EVEN FROSTED FINISH like the rest of the coin . But either way ... I guess we all shall have to see again once I send it in for authentication if was likely the work of a professional forger or if the mint simply made A ONE OF A KIND RARE ERROR . Because logic and common sense is telling me that it wasn't sand blasted by a forger without affecting the edges and certainly not the infamous environmental damage with a EVEN FINISH .... But it's just a little unsettling to see that so many coin collectors and coin experts have a very bad habit of being so quick give only NEGATIVE opinions  ... 🤷🏽‍♂️

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Rich,

 

You really do have to stop it with this dime. It's getting ridiculous. You've been beating this dead horse for two years now. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. A. 1993-D. Matte. Dime. Forget it.

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1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

Rich,

 

You really do have to stop it with this dime. It's getting ridiculous. You've been beating this dead horse for two years now. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. A. 1993-D. Matte. Dime. Forget it.

(I am still hoping someone will step forward and claim responsibility for this desecration even going so far as to concede extra care was taken to protect the edges.)

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So lets deep dive into your amazing Lincoln, btw I am a Lincoln collector and have been for over 20 years so I do know something of the series.  I have no idea why you received grade guesses as low as MS62, perhaps your photos were not clear, perhaps your badgering of this dime nonsense made it easy for people to give low guesses because they didn't believe you or just wanted you to go away.  It is also possible that the coin you show in the slab was not the coin you asked for a grade assessment on, I have not seen the thread where you asked and provided photos so I'm just pointing out some possible scenarios.  But whatever the case the 1963-D is not rare in MS66RD PCGS has graded 247 with 30 higher, NGC has 453 with 9 higher, it retails for $50-$60 so you will be lucky to break even on it after the grading fees.  These are just facts and I'm not tearing down your coin because it looks nice but it is not rare or monumental in any sense.  And of course PCGS will be happy to take your money and reconsider your coin as they will any PCGS graded coin, but that does not guaranty an upgrade, only that it will get a second, third, fourth, or as many looks as you are willing to pay for.

 

As to your dime I very much doubt that it is any sort of mint error, and in all honesty as you have demonstrated the ability to submit to PCGS so it appears that you know it is not what you claim.  It seems that it would be worth having it graded just so you can throw it in the face of all these experts if for no other reason.  Looking forward to your posting your grade results or seeing you on the PCGS forum in two years.  :grin:

 

Oh and just to mention the rims mean nothing those could have been protected with some tape while the surfaces were blasted, easy peasy.

Edited by Coinbuf
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37 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

So lets deep dive into your amazing Lincoln, btw I am a Lincoln collector and have been for over 20 years so I do know something of the series.  I have no idea why you received grade guesses as low as MS62, perhaps your photos were not clear, perhaps your badgering of this dime nonsense made it easy for people to give low guesses because they didn't believe you or just wanted you to go away.  It is also possible that the coin you show in the slab was not the coin you asked for a grade assessment on, I have not seen the thread where you asked and provided photos so I'm just pointing out some possible scenarios.  But whatever the case the 1963-D is not rare in MS66RD PCGS has graded 247 with 30 higher, NGC has 453 with 9 higher, it retails for $50-$60 so you will be lucky to break even on it after the grading fees.  These are just facts and I'm not tearing down your coin because it looks nice but it is not rare or monumental in any sense.  And of course PCGS will be happy to take your money and reconsider your coin as they will any PCGS graded coin, but that does not guaranty an upgrade, only that it will get a second, third, fourth, or as many looks as you are willing to pay for.

 

As to your dime I very much doubt that it is any sort of mint error, and in all honesty as you have demonstrated the ability to submit to PCGS so it appears that you know it is not what you claim.  It seems that it would be worth having it graded just so you can throw it in the face of all these experts if for no other reason.  Looking forward to your posting your grade results or seeing you on the PCGS forum in two years.  :grin:

 

Oh and just to mention the rims mean nothing those could have been protected with some tape while the surfaces were blasted, easy peasy.

(I don't know that I would have the audacity and endurance to challenge your recitation of straight-forward, no-axe-to-grind, immutable facts. How does one come back from such punishing blows? You've effectively made short work of that constant refrain regarding the unmolested edge. As Archie Bunker said to his wife Edith, "You [Coinbuf] are something else!").

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I don't know why I would, but if I were going to sandblast a coin the first thing I would do would be to figure out a way to hold it steady so the blasting would not just slide the coin away.  I think the first thing I would try would be to bore a shallow dime size hole in a piece of wood to hold it, do one side then flip it.  I guess this would also protect the edge from the sandblasting.  That being said, I don't see anyone spending that kind of time on it.  I believe it is simply environmental damage.  There could be any number of reasons the edge was not affected, or it may have been smoothed out afterword from friction or handling.

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May I politely remind the numismatic fraternity at large that defacing coins produced by the various U.S. mints is a federal offense: see Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 331.

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20 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

May I politely remind the numismatic fraternity at large that defacing coins produced by the various U.S. mints is a federal offense: see Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 331.

Does that mean that I am going to jail because of all of those coins I put on the railroad tracks when I was a kid? :o

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8 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

Does that mean that I am going to jail because of all of those coins I put on the railroad tracks when I was a kid? :o

No, the statute of limitations resolved those indiscretions. "Mister 880" (Edward Mueller) the man at the center of a ten-year Secret Service counterfeit currency investigation -- the agency's longest and costliest, when finally caught in 1948 responded with a toothy grin and the remark: "They were only one-dollar bills." True indeed, but nevertheless unlawful and illegal. Like I said, a polite reminder.

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12 hours ago, l.cutler said:

I don't know why I would, but if I were going to sandblast a coin the first thing I would do would be to figure out a way to hold it steady so the blasting would not just slide the coin away.  I think the first thing I would try would be to bore a shallow dime size hole in a piece of wood to hold it, do one side then flip it.  I guess this would also protect the edge from the sandblasting.  That being said, I don't see anyone spending that kind of time on it.  I believe it is simply environmental damage.  There could be any number of reasons the edge was not affected, or it may have been smoothed out afterword from friction or handling.

Well I totally appreciate your professional and logical assessment of the different possibilities ... And I also have to agree that it makes perfect logical sense that no one would probably take that sorta time to sand blast a coin with such accuracy as to somehow not effect the edges at all . Which is why I was so blown away at some of these other replies and comments . And I also cant quite bring myself to go as far as saying that it's just environmental damage given THE OBVIOUS FACT that there is AN EVEN FROSTED FINISH ON BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN WHICH MEETS THE EDGES PERFECTLY...  So with all that being said  along with the UNEFFECTED copper and clad edges . I think it would lead any real coin expert to give it a closer look as opposed to simply trying to dismiss it as the infamous environmental damage or altered coin . And hopefully with the right expert and right testing I can eventually get some real answers about how the coin actually ended up with such a UNIQUE FINISH .... because so far all I gotten here is ALOT OF EXPERT GUESSING . But the one thing we can all honestly say for certain is whether it's a matte finish or some other finish it's clearly not a clad Roosevelt dime with environmental damage . Because if anyone takes the time to look inbetween the grooves of the edges they will also clearly see that it is not worn nor does it have a even FROSTED FINISH like the rest of the coin which would have to rule out any theory of it being smoothed out over time from friction or handling .... But anyway please forgive me if I'm being too thorough and precise about what is really going on with the coin unlike some of us here ... but i honestly think that alot of the coin experts here seem to enjoy RANDOMLY PICKING AND CHOOSING WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE WRONG ABOUT THE COIN WHILE COMPLETELY IGNORING EVERYTHING THAT IS REALLY GOING ON WITH IT ... 

Edited by RichieRich2020
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16 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

(I don't know that I would have the audacity and endurance to challenge your recitation of straight-forward, no-axe-to-grind, immutable facts. How does one come back from such punishing blows? You've effectively made short work of that constant refrain regarding the unmolested edge. As Archie Bunker said to his wife Edith, "You [Coinbuf] are something else!").

Frankly I'm done responding to these ridiculous and childish rants that I seem to be getting for pointing out FACTS and about the dime that I posted seeking logical opinions but so far getting no absolutely none ... infact I'm starting to think I'm making a fool out of myself by even attempting to discuss a coin with people who seem care more about their EGOS as opposed to what's really going on with the coin ... And so with that being said please take care but do keep an eye out for the results of the coin after it is sent to one of the grading company to determine if it was environmental damage or a altered coin  . Because your 100 percent right I would love to see how so may reach that conclusion without offering ANY LOGICAL EXPLANATION .

Edited by RichieRich2020
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(Whatever else must be said, you have to admire the tenacity of a guy who, intermittently, and reportedly over two years' time, is willing to hold his own against an aggregate 150 years of cumulative collective professional numismatic experience. The worst that can happen? Much ado about nothing. The best? Yet another contribution to the hobby. The alleged seven-figure valuation? What did that entity claim you had and what did he charge you for his written appraisal? We're not talking sensitive Top Secret disclosure that would compromise the national security of the nation here.)

Edited by Quintus Arrius
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The proof that the OP realizes he's wrong is this: he's still talking about it here, trying to pressure people into validating his assessment, rather than just sending the Rare Find in to a grading company so that his assessment can be vindicated and he can laugh at everyone all the way to the bank. No one who had the real thing would be wasting time debating it here. Ergo, he strongly suspects it isn't what he thinks it is.

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12 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

Frankly I'm done responding...

:golfclap: :applause: :headbang:  (thumbsu :banana: :takeit:

 

12 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

infact I'm starting to think I'm making a fool...

Fixed that for you... :devil:

 

12 hours ago, RichieRich2020 said:

And so with that being said please take care but do keep an eye out for the results of the coin after it is sent to one of the grading company to determine if it was environmental damage or a altered coin...

But I thought you said that TPG grading was too expensive? I'll help you out. Send it in to NGC and when you've proven us all wrong and it comes back Experimental Finish, I will not only pay your grading fees, but I'll give you $10,000 for the coin. 

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Well in all his ranting the OP did get one thing right ego is clearly involved; the only problem is that it is the op with the ego issue not those who have replied.  Farewell to you Richie may you find a new forum to troll soon.

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From the comfort, safety and relative anonymity of a chat room, the rather vocal poodle taunts the older bulldogs. I say let the underdog have his fun! (And be prepared to make RR2020 an offer he can't refuse if he pulls an upset.)  

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4 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

From the comfort, safety and relative anonymity of a chat room, the rather vocal poodle taunts the older bulldogs. I say let the underdog have his fun! (And be prepared to make RR2020 an offer he can't refuse if he pulls an upset.)  

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🤞🏻

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4 hours ago, gmarguli said:

:golfclap: :applause: :headbang:  (thumbsu :banana: :takeit:

 

Fixed that for you... :devil:

 

But I thought you said that TPG grading was too expensive? I'll help you out. Send it in to NGC and when you've proven us all wrong and it comes back Experimental Finish, I will not only pay your grading fees, but I'll give you $10,000 for the coin. 

Well that's a very modest offer of you and I will be sure to keep that in mind even though I'm guessing that if it is a TRUE ONE OF A KIND then any TRUE collector would probably see way more value in it seeing as though they are supposed to be NONEXISTENT right ... but either way i guess well shall all have to see what happens with the underdogs crazy theory . And again thank you for your gracious offer 🤞🏻 ....

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10 hours ago, JKK said:

The proof that the OP realizes he's wrong is this: he's still talking about it here, trying to pressure people into validating his assessment, rather than just sending the Rare Find in to a grading company so that his assessment can be vindicated and he can laugh at everyone all the way to the bank. No one who had the real thing would be wasting time debating it here. Ergo, he strongly suspects it isn't what he thinks it is.

Well actually I was doing what any logical person would do before sending in a coin with an UNKNOWN FINISH by trying to gain a little more insight as to how the coin could have ended up with a special finish and UNTOUCHED EDGES. But unfortunately to my disappointment no one was able to provide any LOGICAL ANSWERS besides environmental damage with a EVEN FINISH or sandblasting the coin while taping the coins edges 😂😂😂 ... But either way . That was still a VERY CREATIVE assessment you gave . Thanks for lifting my spirits. 🤦🏽‍♂️😂

Edited by RichieRich2020
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So baically after reading all these interesting replys on the topic and mysteriously being unable to log back into my account by someone . I couldn't help but begin to wonder if ALL these comments are really related to the TOPIC in question : i.e ; COULD THIS BE A NEW DISCOVERY OF A ROOSEVELT DIME WITH A MATTE FINISH ... 

 Because you see . So far I've heard a lot of CREATIVE AND UNSUPPORTED SUGGESTIONS about how the coin could be sandblasted and how A NEW FORM OF MAGICAL ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE exists that could somehow leave a clad coin with a EVEN matte finish and untouched edges . But NOT ONCE HAVE I ACTUALLY SEEN ABSOLUTELY ANYONE demonstrate these THEORIES nor share single a coin to actually prove to everyone that the OP is wrong .  Because that my friends would CLEARLY be totally interesting and totally welcomed . Although something deep down inside of me is already telling me that would probably NEVER HAPPEN ... Because THE FACT IS . None of these THEORIES pertains to the actual finish on the coin since that is what the topic was originally all about until all these EGOS came into the picture .

Infact . In closing . I would just like to say . Thank you for all these VERY INTERESTING THEORIES that some of you guys have managed come up with . Because I really do appreciate it.  And i do expect to see alot more of this in the future because something is telling me that this is NORMALLY how FACTS are usually reached on NEWLY DISCOVERED COIN FINISHES WITHOUT TESTING ... and please do not take any offense to my FACT CHECKING because they are not personal at all and unlike alot of collectors and coin experts in this post ... I DO NOT EVER MIND being proven wrong .  😆 🤣 

Edited by RichieRich2020
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There is a dynamic at play here only a psycholinguist could fully appreciate. And precious little of it, akin to virtual bullying, is fair to RichieRich2020. And I think I will leave it at that. The guilty ones know exactly what I am talking about.

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4 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

There is a dynamic at play here only a psycholinguist could fully appreciate. And precious little of it, akin to virtual bullying, is fair to RichieRich2020. And I think I will leave it at that. The guilty ones know exactly what I am talking about.

Well i've always and will always respect the maturity level of grown men who can actually appreciate facts whether they're right or wrong ... because from the very outset of my post I didn't really expect anything different without actually testing the coin so its totally understandable . Infact I'm currently looking for a coin group as we speak where most if not all the people who post their coins give 100% of their opinions based SOLELY on things such as testing as opposed to 95% of COLLECTORS who think themselves .... ive been an expert for over 800 years and so IM NEVER WRONG because that would be very cool and very interesting . 😉 

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On reflection, I am being way too charitable.  Some of the responses are wholly undeserved and bordering on the pathological.  We are only talking coins here, no sex, nothing political or religious or anything else that might inspire unkind words and pejorative characterizations. A man offers that he has reached his 40th birthday and, instead of receiving the customary well wishes, gets a Medieval Trebuchet launched to the gut:  I thought [you were only] eight, or some similar such put-down. Not right.

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