Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book 4 4

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/8/2024 at 12:11 PM, zadok said:

...was referring to movements of funds n assets to other countries both from here n to here....

I know ....very interesting reading the articles in 1938 and 1939, especially the ones from correspondents in Germany.

[GoldFinger1969]

Inquiry ATS if anybody has the ledger receipt(s) for the 1933 INDIAN HEAD EAGLES from the Philly Mint  -- not Double Eagles !! -- that legitimized 4 or 5 of the coins which makes all 35-40 legal to own (since they can't tell which ones are the Original 5).

[RWB]

What do you mean by "ledger receipts?"

PS: All available US Mint records show that no 1933 DE were missing, ergo none could have been stolen. The Court refused to allow me to make that simple observation, which would have likely raised questions with the jury about the Govt's claim of theft. I.e., If nothing is missing can something be stolen?

Edited July 15 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/15/2024 at 7:35 AM, RWB said:

What do you mean by "ledger receipts?" S: All available US Mint records show that no 1933 DE were missing, ergo none could have been stolen. The Court refused to allow me to make that simple observation, which would have likely raised questions with the jury about the Govt's claim of theft. I.e., If nothing is missing can something be stolen?

Those Cashier ledgers that you have showed for various coins, mostly DEs....was wondering if there is one for the 1933 $10 Indian Head Eagles.

I think I have seen it but can't rememeber where.

It would be the paper that shows that a cashier (the Mint) gave out a $10 Eagle.

[RWB]

These are details of the two pages you're looking for.

3rd wide column from left, near top:

Feb 28, 1933 -- Eagles Prior [years] 1,820. Mar 1, 1933 -- 1,740. Reduced by pay out = $80.

Feb 28, 1933 -- Eagles 1933 [date] 1,420. Mar 1, 1933 -- 1,390. Reduced by pay out = $30.

Edited July 15 by RWB

[RWB]

This summary table will help. The table is copyright Seneca Mill Press LLC 2015, 2024.

Edited July 15 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

Great, I will study and if no objection post ATS as we segued into the 4 $10 Eagles legitimizing all the Eagles out there since they can't ID them individually....NOT the case with Elite Collection's Farouk 1933 DE.

[RWB]

Please include the copyright notice with the table.

I prepared the table from original data and obtained the Cashier's Daily Settlement sheets among them.

Edited July 15 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/15/2024 at 2:37 PM, RWB said:

Please include the copyright notice with the table. I prepared the table from original data and obtained the Cashier's Daily Settlement sheets among them.

Understood, no problem.

I take it the 4 coins in blue "Sold By Treasurer" is the X marks the spot. 

Edited July 15 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

And the 1 sold by the Philadelphia Cashier...both were officials authorized to distribute the coins. The Treasurer's Office had 100 coins and openly offered them for purchase - just as with previous coins.

Somewhere there might be a list of purchasers as was kept for other years, but I have not found it.

Edited July 15 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/15/2024 at 6:10 PM, RWB said:

And the 1 sold by the Philadelphia Cashier...both were officials authorized to distribute the coins. 

Thanks, I missed that.

[GoldFinger1969]

PennyLady/Charmy showed us 2 photos of Saints with special designations that are "owned" by the ANA Museum and were just on display in Chicago.

Any thoughts on both having a CAC designation ?  Does this imply acceptance or no disagreement (neither confirming nor disagreeing) with the special labels that each of these Saints have for their "special" strikes ?

[RonnieR131]

 GoldFinger1969  Good question. In this case, I would think that it would imply 'acceptance'. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/16/2024 at 10:33 AM, RonnieR131 said:

 GoldFinger1969  Good question. In this case, I would think that it would imply 'acceptance'. 

The 1921 is one of the "Specimen" coins that Roger dedicated space in his book.  He called it a "Roman finish presentation striking" and that 1 of the 2 coins (the non-Baker coin) was from "clashed dies" (what is that ?).  The Baker/Ghirardelli coin is apparently another coin; this one is the one called "Specimen" by a TPG in Roger's book.

This coin is in the ANA Museum (?) so there is only 1 of the 2 "specimens" that trade privately ?

EDIT:  Now I'm not sure if the 2 coins shown above are in the ANA Museum...they followed the ANA Museum picture in Charmy's thread but looking at it closely it's a separate picture and maybe location so both coins could have been on a dealer's table.

Edited August 16 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

BTW....there is nothing about an "Experimental Finish" on any 1910 Saint in Roger's book. 

 

[RWB]

The two incorrectly labeled coins are in private collections. The 1910 coin's "Experimental Finish" has no technical description -- it is another "looks like" nonsense guess. There are two 1921s subject to similar false descriptions. The 1921 I examined was struck from clashed dies. It is not a proof. I have not examined the other one.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/16/2024 at 11:55 AM, RWB said:

The two incorrectly labeled coins are in private collections. The 1910 coin's "Experimental Finish" has no technical description -- it is another "looks like" nonsense guess. There are two 1921s subject to similar false descriptions. The 1921 I examined was struck from clashed dies. It is not a proof. I have not examined the other one.

I agree completely on the 1910 since I have never read about an "EF" in your book or elsewhere (but now I will double-check).

Do you agree that there is "something" on the 1921's, since you dedicated a few pages in your book to it ?  Since production had just re-started with the 1920 after WW I, maybe they were "refreshing" their striking process and those 2 coins were an attempt to change striking texture similar to what we had about a decade earlier with Proofs ?

Edited August 16 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

The 1921 I examined was from a used die pair, so it could not have been from the first production for that year. It lacks the sharpness of any SG proof $20, so it was not made on a medal press. Without examining the other coin, any comment about what it "is," is just guessing. It is obvious about what it "isn't."

A pristine 1921 is in the Connecticut State Collection (Michelson).

Edited August 16 by RWB

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/16/2024 at 11:55 AM, RWB said:

The two incorrectly labeled coins are in private collections....

RWB:  What seems to be the problem here?

🐓  :  ... experimental finishes, specimens, clashed dies, speciment strikes, "looks like" nonsense, etc...

RWB:  No problem. Issue my "incorrectly labeled coins" proclamation, and presto! problem solved.

🐓  :  I tell you, Quintus, I believe Roger to be "a strange visitor from another planet who came to earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men."  

[RWB]

Stopped to look at another of the TV coin sales shows on cable. This one was selling 1932 Eagles "MS-64" for some excessive price. On the announcer's desk was a copy of my Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle book, used as a prop much as the same folks had used the RAV 1905-1908 book on a previous show.

Always interesting to see your own books on TV.

[VKurtB]

On 8/18/2024 at 3:39 PM, RWB said:

Stopped to look at another of the TV coin sales shows on cable. This one was selling 1932 Eagles "MS-64" for some excessive price. On the announcer's desk was a copy of my Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle book, used as a prop much as the same folks had used the RAV 1905-1908 book on a previous show.

Always interesting to see your own books on TV.

If not seen there, then where? I’d hope TV coin sellers would have reference books. Any idea where they do those shows?

[RWB]

On 8/18/2024 at 5:24 PM, VKurtB said:

If not seen there, then where? I’d hope TV coin sellers would have reference books. Any idea where they do those shows?

I think this was Rick Tomaska's production. The DE book has an impressively large photo on the cover, but there's almost nothing about Eagles in it. That book was in the works, but never completed.

[VKurtB]

On 8/18/2024 at 4:33 PM, RWB said:

I think this was Rick Tomaska's production. The DE book has an impressively large photo on the cover, but there's almost nothing about Eagles in it. That book was in the works, but never completed.

Does Rick have his own studio? I was astonished how huge the HSN studios near Philly were. 

[RWB]

On 8/18/2024 at 5:35 PM, VKurtB said:

Does Rick have his own studio? I was astonished how huge the HSN studios near Philly were. 

Don't know. Possibly rental areas from Bloomberg, who owns the cable channel production company.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/18/2024 at 4:39 PM, RWB said:

Stopped to look at another of the TV coin sales shows on cable. This one was selling 1932 Eagles "MS-64" for some excessive price. On the announcer's desk was a copy of my Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle book, used as a prop much as the same folks had used the RAV 1905-1908 book on a previous show.  Always interesting to see your own books on TV.

It's a repeat, I think they just refresh the price of the coins if gold moves.  With gold at $2,500 an ounce, I wouldn't be surprised if they were charging $3,000 or close to it for 1/2 an ounce in an MS-64 Eagle.

[RWB]

On 8/18/2024 at 9:59 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It's a repeat, I think they just refresh the price of the coins if gold moves.  With gold at $2,500 an ounce, I wouldn't be surprised if they were charging $3,000 or close to it for 1/2 an ounce in an MS-64 Eagle.

A lot like those junk jewelry sales pitches....