HEADS UP!!!! Ohio state bureau liquidating investment in rare coin funds.

[MTHead-migration]

State giving up on coins

Questions surrounding investment prompt decision

Tuesday, May 10, 2005

By Mark Niquette and Jon Craig THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

 

 

The state is getting out of the rare coin business.

 

In response to questions raised about two controversial rare-coin funds controlled by prominent Thomas W. Noe, the Ohio Bureau of Workers’ Compensation said yesterday it will seek to recoup its $50 million investment and dissolve the program.

 

Meanwhile, a Colorado sheriff’s office has reactivated its investigation of missing coins from the state-backed fund there, law-enforcement officials said.

 

And The Dispatch has learned that two months before Ohio agreed to the contract with Noe, he lost an insurance claim involving $203,588 in coins and currency reported stolen from his parked Oldsmobile Cutlass in 1996.

 

Yesterday’s developments came amid increasing criticism that Ohio should not be investing in rare coins, as well as questions about how Noe has managed the investment.

 

Noe, a major campaign contributor to state and federal Party candidates, is chairman of the Ohio Turnpike Commission and a member of the Board of Regents. He also faces an apparently unrelated federal investigation in connection with campaign contributions to President Bush.

 

The bureau has asked Attorney General Jim Petro to appoint an independent party to oversee the process of dissolving the coin funds, which could take time to ensure the state gets back as much of its money as possible, officials said.

 

The bureau is optimistic it will get a full return of its original investment, said James S. McLean, the agency’s chief investment officer. One deal was to expire in 2009, the other in 2011.

 

Details are being finalized about how the coins, real estate and other holdings will be sold or how the bureau’s investment otherwise will be returned, he said.

 

"We simply can’t terminate it and expect to recover the best possible value for it," said Charles "Rocky" Saxbe, Noe’s attorney. "If you do a fire sale, then you shoot yourself in the foot."

 

Bureau Administrator James Conrad has defended the investment because it has made $15 million for the state, but he has acknowledged there are concerns. He said the decision to dissolve the funds was mutually made with Noe, who suggested the move Friday.

 

"While the investment has been profitable, its future prospects are uncertain in light of questions that have been raised with respect to its management," Conrad said.

 

Some of the questions stem from reports that 121 coins worth $400,000 were either lost in the mail or stolen.

 

Authorities in Colorado have been investigating the Oct. 27, 2003, disappearance of two coins worth $300,000 at Numismatic Professionals, a dealer in Evergreen, Colo., affiliated with Noe. But the apparent theft of another 119 coins worth $93,000 was never reported to deputy sheriffs, officials said.

 

"I think it will be a brandnew investigation," said Jackie Tallman, spokeswoman for the Jefferson County sheriff’s office in Golden, Colo. "We know nothing about 119 coins."

 

Sheriff’s investigator Jennifer Gilmore said, "That’s the bizarre thing. Nobody has ever filed an additional theft report. When the victim doesn’t call, we’re at a loss."

 

Official notice that coins were missing surfaced in a Sept. 15 report by coin fund auditors who said the location of the coins could not be determined.

 

"Management believes this could relate to a misappropriation of assets by a former employee during fiscal year 2004," the report said. Noe had hired a lawyer and forensic accountant to help with the investigation.

 

Noe has told The Blade of Toledo that once his company completes a forensic accounting, it will turn the findings over to Colorado authorities.

 

Noe, the dealer that the bureau hired in March 1998 to invest in rare coins, went to Evergreen last fall to gather 57 boxes of material from his coin company subsidiary, according to McLean.

 

He said Noe and his partners flew to Colorado at the first sign of suspicious activity and boxed up the coins, computers and records for shipment to Ohio.

 

It’s possible not all 119 coins are missing because some might not have been available from the move when auditors did their annual check of Noe’s inventory in the summer of 2004, McLean said.

 

"I think they may have missed some (coins)."

 

An audit of Noe’s inventory and coin fund finances will be done this summer, he said.

 

Insurance claims had been filed for all 121 missing or stolen coins but were put on hold when theft allegations surfaced, McLean said.

 

But he said that to cover any losses, Noe is keeping $1.3 million in seized coins and money owed to Michael Storeim, a coin dealer from Evergreen. Noe hired Storeim to run Numismatic Professionals Ltd.

 

The bureau has declined to disclose the exact coins and their value, saying releasing such information could hurt the market value of the coins.

 

Bureau officials suspect, based on what Noe has told them, that the loss of the first two coins and the theft of the 119 others are related.

 

But, yesterday, they said they were unaware of Noe’s earlier coin losses when they hired him in 1998.

 

According to court records, Noe lost a dispute in January 1998 about an insurance claim for $203,588 in rare coins and currency he reported stolen from his locked car in November 1996. Noe had bought the insurance about six weeks before the theft, records say.

 

Noe said he was driving back from a coin convention in Dearborn, Mich., and had the coins in a briefcase when his car was burglarized in the driveway of a relative’s home in the Toledo suburb of Sylvania, court records say.

 

The rear passenger window was smashed and the company briefcases — Noe and his wife disagreed whether there was one or two — stolen. Other items, including a purse, cell phone and radar detector, were not taken, Noe reported.

 

The court ruled against Noe because the insurance policy did not cover theft from an unattended vehicle. But that policy did cover loss of coins through the mail, court records said.

[truthteller]

We should start seeing the ripple effects by Long Beach. People "in the know" have seen this coming. Should be interesting to see how $50 million of coins can be dispersed quickly. In addition, this major trading fund will no longer be buying into the coin market, making other trading funds skittish. Some people might go to jail for a while. End result: just another day in the coin biz.

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[gmarguli]

Without knowing what they are holding, it's impossible to tell if there will be any affect. If they're holding a bunch of big rarities, the market will suck those up with ease. If they're holding 10,000 common date CC Morgans in MS65 then the market might be in for a rough ride.

[Hoot]

Without knowing what they are holding, it's impossible to tell if there will be any affect. If they're holding a bunch of big rarities, the market will suck those up with ease. If they're holding 10,000 common date CC Morgans in MS65 then the market might be in for a rough ride.

 

Yup. I just hope there are few buffalo nickels.

 

""That’s the bizarre thing. Nobody has ever filed an additional theft report. When the victim doesn’t call, we’re at a loss."

 

That is bizarre. Smells like embezzlement.

 

Hoot

[truthteller]

You haven't been around the coin biz long enough. I've seen this event happen in three previous market cylcles. Many sight unseen market makers have pulled their non generic gold bids months ago. There is no mechanism in place to support a freefall. The dealer support network is very, very thin. In general, there is a 3-6 month window of opportunity for sales before a severe market correction. I believe the CSNS was an anomaly on the slightly upside, after three very soft major shows. The correction is occuring right now, but most folks won't believe it until Long Beach or ANA, and they can't move big ticket coins. The only bright spot I see in the mist, is the Europeans and Asians buying US rare coins off the marketplace, which is happening right now.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[jom]

Never fails. Things are cyclic...and I've been around just long enough to see it twice. Maybe now coin prices will drop to a reasonable level.

 

Up next: California Real Estate.

 

jom

[midwest]

Smells like embezzlement.

 

 

smells more like the government shouldn't invest in things.Would you really trust our government the one that has documented proof of spending 2000.00 dollars on one nail and who have turned most of our government into a beauraucratic hell that would make the most hardcore Russian commie happy in investing in stuff.Exactly no.Our government doesn't know its tail from a sheetrock.Our government the one who has turned all of our wellfare programs into a free money grab it if you want that teaches some people or maybe many that you don't have to work because you can leach off hard working people who actually go to work instead on sitting on there fat wondering when there next wellfare check is coming so they can keep not working.Than if the government goes are you looking for a job they call a few people who are hireing make them sign a paper then give it back to the government so another bearucratic layer of hell can rubber stamp it.The only good thing is the government created the lottery so these dumb lazy people will give the state the money and maybe pay for some kind of education for kids.I saw a bumpersticker yesterday that somes it up pretty well "work hard millions of people on wellfare are depending on you".Now don't tell me that some people have a reson to be on these programs that is fine.But don't say the "hand of poverty" is keeping many people down.The only hand that is keeping them down is there fat hand inside a cheetoes bag with the other hand securely fastened to there remore control.Then they decide to actaully sue cheetoes because they wouldn''t get off there fat so they became fat.People these are only a few things wrong with the government and I am mad because the USA is going to in a handbasket thanks to it.Did I even mention the unions they are why US companies are going to China.They believe they should get every thing free from there companies then get paid 40.00 dollars an hour plus a month of vacation.People why don't you pay for some of your own healthcare and work with comopanies instead of holding them hostage woth terrorist like demands.I can go on for much longer but I have to go make lunch.

[truthteller]

Here's a link to another similar story. It seems to be gaining momentum in Ohio. Look at the links at the bottom. There are some interesting dirty laundry stories.

 

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/BREAKINGNEWS/50509007

 

 

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[MastaHanky]

smells more like the government shouldn't invest in things.

 

Oh come on, I'm sure they'll do fine with our social security.

 

By the way, how do you REALLY feel?

[TomB]

It appears that more than one person believed that if they made the state of Ohio a profit on paper that they were entitled to skim the surface of the funds. I hope there is jail time if this is the case.

[Oldtrader3]

Why is Noe getting the opportunity to audit his own malfeasance??? He must really be a big suck-up to the Administration! The State of Ohio should seize the assets and audit them against Noe's records.

[Hoot]

Why is Noe getting the opportunity to audit his own malfeasance??? He must really be a big suck-up to the Administration! The State of Ohio should seize the assets and audit them against Noe's records.

 

I thought this same thing, Charlie. I thought, "Who gets to hire their own forensic investigator with no DA involvement in a criminal case?" What crapola. Next crime I commit, I'll be sure to do the same.

 

Hoot

[supertooth]

Years ago I received a year end statement from Blue Cross--Blue Shield saying that I had earned thousands of dollars. Actually, I had earned only 8 hundred and change during that year. I then received a phone call from an actual patient that I had supposedly worked on. They were checking on the paperwork as well. Trouble was---the procedures were medical and not dental. To cut a long story short---I had my wife call the appropriate agency---they would not even talk to us---as we could not prove who we were over the phone. Went through procedures to verify that I was the dentist that I claimed that I was. Next came the point of this thread. The State Agency sent it to Blue Cross to "investigate itself". Turns out I had been given a "medical" number and the procedures----which I nor anyone else had ever done---were falsely placed into the computer. When it was over----Blue Cross did nothing about the fraud----someone had issued checks for these thousands of dollars and they made no effort to find the fraud. I told them that I wanted a corrected statement of my actual income for I was going to be able to "PROOVE" that I had never made that money. I did get that statement but that was all the satisfaction that I ever got. They did not care----nobody cared that someone at Blue Cross--Blue Shield was stealing money and commiting various fraudulent activities. Our wonderful insurance companies at work for our best interests?? Could we ever expect anything different in coin or any other business?? In our world of today, it is only "bad" if you get caught and even then, as my story proves, it does not necessarily mean that you will ever pay a price for your actions. Bob [supertooth]

[nwcs]

Ever see office space?

[supertooth]

nwcs-----If your question about office space is directed towards me, I do not quite understand your question. Please explain. Bob [supertooth]

[midwest]

nwcs-----If your question about office space is directed towards me, I do not quite understand your question. Please explain. Bob [supertooth]

 

 

 

It is a movie link

[supertooth]

Thanks. But I did not see the movie. You guys can have some "fun" with me as I am a truly dense retired dentist. I spent my whole life either fixing or making teeth. When I wasn"t doing that I was either hunting or fishing, chainsawing or looking at coins. So The Arts, Movies, Actors, or anything related ----well----just not ever going to be in my knowledge package. You just got to explain it to me if you want me to reply. Otherwise you can poke fun but it will go right over my head. Bob [supertooth]

[nwcs]

nwcs-----If your question about office space is directed towards me, I do not quite understand your question. Please explain. Bob [supertooth]

It's a movie that has a premise that fits well with what you said. The cable version is better than the real one which is more vulgar, though. But it's a good spoof on the working world -- especially cheesy restaurants and tech firms.

[supertooth]

Thanks nwcs-----The great thing about these NGC boards is the "folks". It took me about two months to read the threads that I had not seen. A wealth of information I might add. Worth my time to read them. But what was more important was that, with few exceptions, everyone seems to want to be civil and accept each other for what we are. Our common love is the coins. We seem to want to help one another. And, again for the most part, we are willing to share information. We truly seem to do much better than most of life seems to be doing. We should be proud of ourselves. Congratulations guys and gals!! Bob [supertooth]

[midwest]

cheesy restaurants

 

 

Don't forget to ware your flare