Poll...Do "conserved" coins affect your trust of NGC products?

[Count_Erfit]

On a personal level, I am very concerned. I just returned a coin with "something" done to the obverse. Not at all consistent with the reverse and very similar to "whizzing." This is obviously nothing I can be "sure" of, but my 30 years in the business and another dealer's 30 years were of the opinion that it was not "right." Total "skinned" appearance and much softening of details. (Reverse beautiful and original) Again, not proof, but concern.

 

Earlier I had returned a different coin (same series) that appeared to be "turning" or "reverting." I had a coin conserved and put it away and forgot about it for appx. 4 months and on next inspection, the blemish that had been removed was coming back.

 

It bothers me that these "conserved" coins are in the same holder as original, untampered coins and as such carry the same guarantees and "legitimacy."

However, most of us know that there can be no guarantee of what happens once something is ...changed.... on a coin.

 

I have selfish motives for this concern. First, I want my NGC coins to be as "stable" as any original coin and Secondly, I want to preserve competition for PCGS as a "check/balance" and have validity in the grading.

 

What's your opinion?

[midwest]

No it doesn't concern me at all.First NCS has been operating since 2001 and if there has been a large or even small problem it would probably would have been known by now.Also If I am not mistaking before NCS the ANA operated a similar service.If true problems are happeing I am confident they would be known.

 

As far as these "conserved" pieces being in NGC plastic they are in everybodys plastic.NGC,PCGS,ANACS,ICG and every other company down the line you can imagine.If coins go bad in any of these services holder except an ANACS net holder I am confident the right steps will be taken to correct any monetary loss or other similar things.

 

I am more worried about "home conserved" pieces being in TPG holders really.

[gmarguli]

The question of "Do conserved coins in NGC holders concern you?" is a little odd. Unless you are the submitter to both NCS & NGC, you have no real way of knowing if the coins have been conserved. You can guess and assume, but you have no way of knowing. A properly conserved coin will not show signs of conservation.

 

There are conserved coins in all slabs. Do you really think that the NCS conserved coins stay in NGC slabs and don't move around? I bet they move around at a higher rate than non-conserved coins.

 

What about all the home conserved coins? They're out there is all the slabs. These are the ones you should be more worried about.

[coinman1794]

I am not concerned at all. Most conserved coins are more stable than those not conserved. And further, the conservation service provided by NCS is a much more professional service than the average person who tries to say...dip a coin, yet all those amaturely dipped coins are in the same holders as the conserved coins.

 

Now, it all depends on exactly what is done to a particular coin. Not all techniques are the same, but in many cases, conservation involves removing surface contaminations that would otherwise harm the coin over time. I am not a big fan of dipping personally, but there are other ways of removing contamination without stripping metal or using abraisives. These are ideal forms of cleaning becuase they are harmless and helpful to long-term preservation.

[Count_Erfit]

gmarguli.... Fair question. Here's one I did personally from beginning to end.

 

 

Now it's only one incident. The others are "suspected" similar ones.

 

As a disclaimer, I realize that the lighting is not equal for each, but when it returned it was very bright and had that "greasy" look. It was visibly duller and the glunk was coming back.

 

I bring it up as it concerns me. And I also agree that HOME "messing" is FAR worse.

[midwest]

My recomndeation is send it to NGC ATTN: Mark salsburg or the other big wig who I can't remember.Include a short note that includes your story,contact info,ETC. Tell him they should probably study it plus if the problem is affecting the grade they will handle it under the grade guarantee.

[Tradedollarnut]

[midwest]

Only if NGC starts doing shady things.I would like PCGS but I feel that they have to many problems.Most seem to stem from David Hall

 

[Tradedollarnut]

. Like you would know what goes on and where.

 

This board functions best when it's not dominated by rants against PCGS. Kindly stop.

[EZ_E]

I submitted six coins to NCS in January. Of the six, they conserved 4 of them. They refused to conserve a CuNi Indian Cent (which is understandable) and they refused to conserve a Type I SLQ for improper cleaning. I don't know why, it was obvious that it was dipped but it had no hairlines and had pleasant eye-appeal. All of this is acceptable behavior.

 

I had a proof 65 PCGS cameo 1909 Liberty nickel conserved which turned out sweet. However, it did not upgrade although it is a no-brainer PR 66 Cameo but once again, the grading services were playing their reindeer games with tightened vs loosened standards.

 

An MS 63 PCGS 1861 half dime also conserved very nicely but, yet, did not upgrade although it is a very solid 63. But that's ok.

 

An MS 63 raw Sesqui half removed some toning spots which were forming. Superb job.

 

All of the above was acceptable conduct even though I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get any upgrades. The following, however, was completely unacceptable behavior:

 

I submitted an NGC PR 67 1942 silver Jefferson for conservation. It had beautiful, gorgeous skyblue toning on the reverse. Just awesome! And average toning on the obverse. I sent it in to be conserved on the obverse only! I wrote this down three different times in different locations on the submission form and insert. I said, "Do not touch the beautiful sky-blue toning on the reverse." I was extremely clear about this point. So, what happens? I get the coin back with both sides blast white and in an NGC PR 65 holder. Now, what is wrong with this picture?! The reason they gave for going against my expressed, written wishes that it was not toning but a residue and that by not conserving it it would have graded lower. Wait-a-minute! It was PR 67 and now its PR 65 and they were worried about a down-grade? First off, it was part of my personal type collection and they had no right what-so-ever to go against my expressed wishes and destroy my personal property. Secondly, they were trying to blow smoke in my ear by giving some bogus reason for their SNAFU! They did make good on their guarantee and refunded me $300 but this is little consolation for such an aberrant business practice. I lost all trust at that point. If they would have conserved the obverse only then I would have been very pleased with the results but they didn't even give me the courtesy of a phone call and totally disrespected me, as a customer, and ruined a highly valued coin of my collection.

 

So, I have but a 50% satisfaction rating with NCS. But, as stated, three of the coins turned out exceptional. The obverse of the Jefferson turned out exceptional but the obverse had been eaten into the surface, which would never have shown if it wasn't conserved.

 

The coins have never turned to date and it has been over four months, now. Would I submit to NCS again? Yes. If I had special instructions, though, I would speak to someone personally to clarify the procedure desired since they have proven to me that they will disregards one's implicit request if they so deem.

[midwest]

I have overwhelming suspicions and I will air them.If one of these days an NGC mod politely says slow down or stop with the PCGS stuff I will obide.Untill then I will use this forum for it's purpose to bring ideas, stories and people with a love of numismatics together.

[Tradedollarnut]

I will look long and hard at any coin that has the conserved 'look' and definitely factor that into my decision of whether to buy it or not - with most often the decision being not to buy it.

[GoYankees]

I'm not concerned at all. When I use a TPG, I trust them to grade my coin w/o bias and agenda. That said, I trust NCS to conserve my coin in a professional manner.

[midwest]

I'm not concerned at all. When I use a TPG, I trust them to grade my coin w/o bias and agenda. That said, I trust NCS to conserve my coin in a professional manner.

 

I am going to take Greg is going to make a PCGS stab for 2000 and make it a true daily double.

[Count_Erfit]

103 views and 24 votes. Is dis ......... FLORIDA???

 

[cpm9ball]

103 views and 24 votes. Is dis ......... FLORIDA???

 

 

Hey, this is better than 103 votes and 24 views! How's dat ?

 

Chris

Cape Coral, FL

[midwest]

Hi PCGS forumites remember me

 

Hope you are having fun save me from these crazy people

 

Also I still don't submit to PCGS

 

Also russ we are not rejects so there

 

also we have greg

 

 

 

MWC13, Darlcoin,Kramer, Slabseller, ETC

[michael]

no

 

conserved coins do not affect my trust of any grading service

 

 

i do not trust any of them anyways

 

no way no how and this is not good or bad

 

it all depends precious few are great some are good most are bad

 

i need to see the coin and look at it and it all depends on the conservation the overall look of the coin the grade and the price many things come into play

 

if i like the coin and the conservation helped the coin and removed some light toning or whatever that did not as yet hurt the coin and did not damage it after whatever was removed and with no residue and looks like it just came from the dies with no afteraffects like that greasy or unoriginal look and feel it is a good scarce coin and a good value then it is okie for me

 

 

the problem comes into play where 95% of the conserved coins i see i do not like and this is again not good or bad i just expect well amazing coins to start with and amazing results

 

 

 

but we will not go there as then i will be banned from both ngc and pcgs boards

[midwest]

If that kid is 13, he seems quite bright. Hopefully when he matures he will channel that brightness toward good instead of being a PITA troll.

 

 

That could explain why the FBI thought I sent an anthrax letter Sure you send a letter to the pentagon trying to get an MRE then all of a sudden they say your handwriting looked similar.So remember when they up homeland security spending it does go somewhere.It goes to testing 11 year olds letters to the pentagon for anthrax