My first ebay negative given and received.

[RGT]

I posted about this auction a few days ago across the street. I didn't post here because many people over here don't want to see the word ebay. If you are one of those people, please hit the back button on your browser.

 

Here is a link to the auction in question.

 

1829 Bust Half Dime, AU58??

 

Looking at the images, the coin is clearly in an ANACS slab with the logo visible on the reverse picture. Apparently the coin was in a net graded slab because here is the raw coin I received.

 

 

 

Actually, it's an attractive coin but it grades closer to AU50 and has obvious rim damage. I debated over leaving feedback or not, knowing I would get a retalatory negative, but I decided I needed to warn others of this kind of deception.

 

Needless to say, I recomend you avoid this seller. I'm not sure I need to warn any one here given all the other red flags with his auctions. But I decided to risk it, never dreaming he would send me a raw coin.

[spy88]

RGT, you could very easily have taken him to task with SquareTrade based on his picture, clearly in a ANACS insert. Unfortunately, that would/could be his way out. "Just a way of holding the coin for the picture and not really IN the slab".

 

It's obvious to me even with the horrible pictures of his that the coin pictured is not the one you got. And while you agree it's a nice coin, is it worth the hammer you paid?

 

I don't put too much stock in others feedback unless there is a preponderance of negs to pos but I probably would have left a neutral saying "coin pictured was substituted for one of less quality", kept the coin and do as your doing now...giving others a heads up on this seller. Bringing this seller to the attention of both forums will do more against this seller then your neg for neg. JMHO

[Tradedollarnut]

Hold on, now. That's clearly the same coin as is pictured. And nowhere does he state the coin is certified. What he does state is that it's no reserve and no return.

 

In hand, the coin is pretty darn nice except for the rim dings. Those come with the territory when you're buying raw off ebay. They probably do net the grade down to AU50, but if you're not figuring on getting an AU50 [or worse] when you buy raw on ebay, then you're just not thinking ahead!

 

PCGS Price Guide $130 in XF and $250 in AU. Hmmmm.

[EVillageProwler]

I agree w/ TDN on all points. The coin received is the coin pictured. How did you get ripped? How was the seller wrong?

 

EVP

[gmarguli]

How did you get ripped? How was the seller wrong?

 

The picture is taken in a way to hide the damage. At the very least it is a deceptive picture to make the coin appear problem free. You don't feel that is wrong?

 

From the feedback, it appears that he paid for Registered Mail and didn't receive.

 

The seller screams scumbag. Take a look at some of his negative feedback. Complaints about counterfeits, people never receiving the items, etc. He's a total scumbag.

[toyonakataro]

RGT- I feel your pain, but I think you did the right thing to warn other bidders by leaving him a negative feedback.

[supertooth]

What you have here is a basically honest person being scammed by a basically dishonest person. The honest guy gets fooled and does not expect it. If you see it in an ANACS holder, you would naturally expect it to come in that holder. But the warning comes when you look at the negatives. When you do not see the "front" of the holder. And when you know if you do not like it that you cannot return it. Bob [supertooth]

[midwest]

Did you see how many negs he had against him?Personally would have never bought from him but maybe you like to take risks.Use this tool to only look at negs for a person link

 

 

By the way he is a scumbag

[RGT]

Just to clarify a bit, I do think the coin I received is the same one in the ANACS slab. I think it was net graded, which is why he didn't show the label. Some here seem to think this is an acceptable practice. Please remind me not to ever buy from these wannabes.

 

I thought about reporting this to Square Trade, but I didn't think they would do any thing. I exchanged a few emails with the seller but he avoided my questions and told me he just put the coins in the holders to make his picture taking easier. As you can tell, I didn't believe that and even if it were true, it is deception.

 

TDN, I wasn't buying a raw coin (or so I thought). Is it ok to misrepresent the coin as long as the bidding doesn't go too high? How would the seller know how high it would go? I wouldn't have bid if I had known it was damaged and he was going to crack it out. If I buy a BMW and the dealer delivers a Toyota it's all right as long as it'a worth about what I paid for the BMW?

 

You can tell me I was at fault for bidding on this guys coins at all, given all the red flags, but you can't really think this auction was honest and ethical. I would never have bid if I didn't expect to get the coin in the slab as shown.

 

I'm certainly not the only one he scammed this way. One person left negative comments in a positive feedback for some reason. Others apparently didn't know enough to realize they were taken (all too common on ebay). I suspect others chose not to leave feedback at all, fearing retaliation. He sold another last night the same way though he covered the place where an ANACS logo may have been with a sticker. The bust half was described as MS64 and sold for $760. I think it would be interesting to find out what gets delivered to that buyer.

[supertooth]

RGT-----It certainly does leave a bad taste in your mouth. And I certainly understand that. But, I think that at least part of it is that your feel like you should have known better? And well, you should have. But then you say----he just was not truthful. I have also had both hurts----more than once. This only means that if a guy is cleaver and just wants to cheat, he will find the ways to deceive an honest person. But it does rub you raw. Now you will be ever more careful. For example---write to the guy and inquire "BEFORE" you push the buttons. You already know you should. You have taken the time after the auction to do it----why not before it was over? I rarely buy anything on Ebay anymore without emails beforehand. If I do not like the answers I get or if I get no answers at all, I just do not bid. I always think----what can go wrong and then take the steps from there. It is not how you would like to do things. It is just the reality of 2005. And, if you have already paid your dues as they say in this "hobby", you hate to keep paying them. But you must always try to be just as smart as the guy on the other end of the transaction. And it does hurt when once in awhile you let your guard down. Bob [supertooth]

[James_OldeTowne]

Randy, that's awful.

 

I have to disagree with TDN and EVP, as I to believe there was fraud here. Not so much the fact that the coin appears to be slabbed, but because the seller took obvious pains to hid rim damage, knowing full well that the ANACS insert would obscure the very edges of the coin, and the associated dings.

 

Is it a mere "coincidence" that practically all of his other coins are imaged without a slab insert obscuring the rim?

 

I'd be interested in a link to the "other" thread across the street.

 

James

[RGT]

Here you go James.

 

That "other" thread

 

As you would expect, I got mixed reviews over there too. It seems that some people think that anyone who buys coins on ebay deserves whatever they get.

[Tradedollarnut]

So.... if the guy hadn't put it in the ANACS insert, you would have been able to examine the rims from this picture?

 

 

I think not - no way to see those little nicks and dings from this size image.... even without the insert.

 

Anybody think that the coin would bodybag due to damage? I don't - those nicks aren't terrible.

 

The coin is not that bad, the price is not that bad. In fact, I'll put my money where my mouth is and offer to pay $100 cash for it.

[James_OldeTowne]

Although I certainly can't speak for Randy, I don't think money is the point. The point is that the bidders were not given a fair shake at knowing what they were bidding on, because information was intentionally and deceptively withheld.

 

Look at his other auctions (closed) which included many coins with their edges clearly visible, and yes, sufficiently detailed to show whether or not rim damage was present. It sure is a remarkable coincidence that this one coin that does have rim damage had the rims hidden from the bidders.

 

And yes, even at the size of the image in the eBay listing, without the insert to hide the rims, the damage would have been apparent, and speaking for myself, would have changed the amount of my bid.

 

As a collector of half-dimes myself, the amount of damage shown in Randy's images would have definitely been significant to me. I do not like such damage on tiny coins, though on a half-dollar, the same amount of damage probably wouldn't have bothered me.

 

James

[RGT]

Maybe, maybe not, but I probably could have seen the damage in this picture, if the slab weren't hiding it.

 

 

I don't have any experience submitting coins with rim dings so I wasn't sure if it would be bagged or not. I showed it to the dealer who I occasionally submit coins through and his opinion was that it would get bagged.

 

You seem to have missed the whole point of this thread. But since you don't buy coins on ebay it really doesn't matter.

[RGT]

James is correct, money is not the point. If I decide to sell this coin I will put it on ebay with a clear picture and honest description and my normal return policy. I don't know if I would loose money or make money, but that's how I would do it.

 

If I had won the coin for $1.39 I would still feel decieved. I would also feel like I had ripped the seller and that he may have deserved it.

 

The coin is not all that bad and probably worth about what I paid. But I didn't order the Toyota.

[Tradedollarnut]

If the purpose of this thread is that ebay is full of sellers who cut corners and take deceptive images to place their coins in the most favorable light in order to get the highest price possible for them, I certainly agree. I rarely purchase off of ebay for just this reason.

 

 

[HaydenTubbs]

You all might find this prevous auction interesting: link

 

Auction description:

"1900 LAFAYETTE SILVER DOLLAR COIN! SELLING WITH NO RESERVE!. PLEASE SEE SCAN FOR DETAILS AND GRADE. I AM SELLING THIS COIN WITH NO GUARANTEE! LOOKS FUNNY ON THE OBV! ACTUAL PICTURE OF COIN SHOWN! "

 

And the feedback:

 

 

Buyer bob29615:

"thanks for the obvious cast counterfiet coin you are an asset to ebay"

 

Reply by rkktx: "stated no guarantee! And stated coin looks funny!!!! As stated sales are final Mar-20-05 19:10"

Follow-up by bob29615: "hope all see your answer and your ethics in business are very clear - none"<

 

It's quite apparent that this guy is a full time scammer,he ought to be reported to eBay.I'm suprised that people have still purchased coins from him,even with the whopping 96 negs!

 

-Hayden

[AlixTCat]

All his completed auctions have "ESTATE" in the description.

 

That should always be an indicato, right?

 

" I AM SELLING THIS COIN WITH NO GUARANTEE! LOOKS FUNNY ON THE OBV! "

Later in the ad:

"ALL ITEMS GUARANTEED 100 % REAL (UNLESS NOTED)- IF AN ITEM IS FOUND NOT REAL, IT MUST BE RETURNED IN 10 DAYS OF RECEIVING ITEM FOR A FULL REFUND (MUST BE IN ORIGINAL PACKAGE). "

 

So, uh, which is it?