When to slab...

[coppertop-migration]

I have the attached 1885 Trade Silver Dollar that I am pretty fond of. I think that I should get it graded by either NGC or PCGS.

 

Since it appears to me that grading a coin costs between $20 and $30 each, I would think one would have to be selective of coins graded. Is the value threshhold $100, $150, $200?

 

As for this coin, as I am new to grading and am biased to grade this high, what is the opinion of the experts on this board? Take a look and let me know.

 

Finally, I plan to join either with NGC or PCGS. Which is preferred? What are the benefits of each, and how many free gradings do you get for a one year member ship.

 

Thanks for your patience.

[midwest]

First off with trade dollars you HAVE to slab them.There are tons of fakes out there.Really the value threshold depends on what you want to do with it and your personal feelings about slabbing.

 

As gar as me trying to give a grade o won't do that.I will let the true experts do that.

 

As far as wich grading service just go with NGC.They are cheaper faster and well PCGS isn't wat you would call "friendly" from what I hear.

 

on a side note it looks as if there is something on that coin.You may have to have NCS take a look at it.Any way welcome and don't go over to the PCGS forums

[coppertop-migration]

MidwestCoin:

 

When you say it looks like something is on the coin, what are you referring to? This was kept in a jewelers cabinet for many years until very recently. I put it in a 2"x2" cardboard holder.

 

If I submit the coin to NGC, can I ask them to first look at it to see if it should be cleaned, or can I enter it either for cleaning or grading, but not both?

 

Thanks.

[TomB]

It's actually an 1875 Trade dollar, not an 1885 as you have typed. That's too bad for you, as the 1885 Trade dollar is a major rarity. Your coin looks to be a high grade circulated piece, provided that it is real. There is a spot on Ms. Liberty's neck, but this might be loose debris or something sticking to the holder. From the image it is impossible to tell if the coin were cleaned in the past.

 

In truth, I wouldn't join either club. I simply see no logical reason to do so. You do not get "free" gradings, per se, from either service since you are paying the grading fees upfront with your membership. If you want the coin certified I would take it to a local dealer and ask him/her to submit the coin for you. In this way you might get their opinion on the coin's grade and you also will not have to attain the minimum coin number for submission that certain grading tiers or companies might require. For circulated pieces such as this I don't think there is any perceived difference between NGC and PCGS. Also, NGC won't "clean" your coin for you, they might have NCS "conserve" the piece if you request it and they agree that the work should be done.

 

If you coin is original and authentic then I would say that it is pushing $1,000 in value.

[midwest]

MidwestCoin:

 

When you say it looks like something is on the coin, what are you referring to? This was kept in a jewelers cabinet for many years until very recently. I put it in a 2"x2" cardboard holder.

 

If I submit the coin to NGC, can I ask them to first look at it to see if it should be cleaned, or can I enter it either for cleaning or grading, but not both?

 

Thanks.

 

It looks to me as if there are a lot of black spot looking things on the reverse of the coin.Now in hand this may be nothing.However from the picture it does worry me.Those spots could get the coin bagged.So either ANACS would grade it or you could have NCS conserve it.They would look at the coin and seee if it needs any kind of work done.They do charge for lookign at it.Then if they believe it needs any work they willl conserve for a varying fee.It depends on how much the coin costs so you may have to pay a bit to have them do it.

 

link to NCS website

[TomB]

I do not agree with mwc13 that the spotting, that I see primarily on the obverse, would cause a problem for the coin. It looks like black toning spots to me. If you attempt to remove these spots you will be left with discolored areas where the spots once were and will then not only have a coin valued at much less, but will also have a coin that is bagged by the services. If I had to guess, based upon these images only, I would say that the coin has no problems regarding the spotting.

[EZ_E]

I agree with TomB. I believe that conserving this coin would not be in your best interest. The current toning makes it much more interesting. Conservation would only serve to accentuate the flaws.

 

I would suggest that you get a Coin World and look for some of the ads from third tier grading services such as ICG. This way, you can submit the coin yourself, gain valuable experience and get your coin authenticated.

 

Sure, PCGS and NGC currently has the respect of the numismatic community but don't be such a stickler with the grading services. The coin is much, much more important than the plastic that it's in. (But becareful because there are more problem coins in the less well known slabs than there are in NGC and PCGS. But NGC and PCGS definitely have their share of problem coins. The micro "O" Morgan dollars are but the latest example.)

 

Hopefully, TradedollarNut will see your post and comment further.

[coppertop-migration]

Indeed it is an 1875 Trade Dollar, not an 1885, I fat fingered the first entry.

 

Thanks for all of the responses. Based on everything I have read and heard from people, I would really hesitate getting a coin cleaned. I do know where the coin has been for the last 100 years, so I am confident in the authenticity of the coin.

 

My inclination would be too first buy photograde and give it the old amateur try at guessing what the grade would be, and then submitting it to NGC.

 

It seems to me that the local dealers I have talked to dismiss the grading services. Is it just me, or do they view these services negatively because it keeps them from undergrading and then buying nice coins on the cheap.

 

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but again, I am dealing from the vantage point of several coin dealers trying to buy my ancestor's collection at 10 to 20 cents on the dollar from their estate.

[spiny]

If the coin is in the price range TomB mentioned, I would hesitate having it graded if I was looking to sell it. With so many fakes around, I wouldn't even sell my humble 1878s without having it certified first.

[coppertop-migration]

Spiney, do you mean you "wouldn't hesitate" (as opposed to "would hesitate") to have it graded? It seems that is what you meant.

 

I do not want to sell the coin, I am in slow, reasoned accumulate mode with my new found hobby, but since I think the coin is of value and a nice coin, I don't think I would be throwing money away and it might be a nice way to get familiar with how grading works.

 

Does having a coin in a slab take away from its appeal to a long term owner? Do you enjoy looking at a coin in a slab as much as others?

[jom]

When to grade? Ideally: NEVER.

 

But realistically I'd argue only when you are prepared to sell it do you bother with wasting...er...spending your money on grading. But as most probably here know by now...that's just me.

 

jom

[Tradedollarnut]

That's a 4 figure coin - definitely worth certifying.

[coppertop-migration]

Please forgive the noob here and my freshman orientation.

 

The fear I have with certifying any coin, particularly one of value, is sending something of value through the US Mail. Couldn't some USPS employees be aware of the value of some packages going to one of these numismatic grading companies. I have read the articles about the problems in Ohio and the allegation that $300,000 worth of coins were stolen in the mail.

 

Have coins been lost before? I would guess insurance would cover (hopefully), but you would not be able to recover that specific coin, which may be of sentimental value.

 

Thanks, and let me know if I talk/post too much.

[spiny]

Oops. Yeah, I meant wouldn't.

 

Do you enjoy looking at a coin in a slab as much as others?

 

There are some instances where a slab can detract from enjoying the coin fully, for example, a lettered edge coin. But for the most part, they don't bother me. It's more of a value thing for me. There's just not enough added value in getting a professional opinion on a coin I'm going to hold on to for me to spend the money. I'd rather buy more coins. If I like a coin, it doesn't matter to me whether somebody else thinks it's a MS65 or an AU58, until it's time to sell it. Even in case of unfortunate circumstances, I've got good records and given my wife detailed instructions on how to get the most for them if she had to.

[midwest]

Please forgive the noob here and my freshman orientation.

 

The fear I have with certifying any coin, particularly one of value, is sending something of value through the US Mail. Couldn't some USPS employees be aware of the value of some packages going to one of these numismatic grading companies. I have read the articles about the problems in Ohio and the allegation that $300,000 worth of coins were stolen in the mail.

 

Have coins been lost before? I would guess insurance would cover (hopefully), but you would not be able to recover that specific coin, which may be of sentimental value.

 

Thanks, and let me know if I talk/post too much.

 

 

It is a risk you just have to take.If you are really worried I would say send it registered insured mail.

[midwest]

and let me know if I talk/post too much.

 

 

Your thinking of the PCGS boards

[midwest]

I didn't know it could be toning.I saw it and it seemed like something that might be on the coin.I am not sure what but if it is toning It is fine.

[midwest]

I would suggest that you get a Coin World and look for some of the ads from third tier grading services such as ICG. This way, you can submit the coin yourself, gain valuable experience and get your coin authenticated.

 

Oh come on may be seond tier but not 3rd tier.

[coppertop-migration]

The orange speck on her neck was indeed debris. I can see a couple of very minor nicks in the coin (on her upper right arm and lower left shin), but otherwise no signs of wear.

 

What is the key way to determine whether a coin is high-grade almost-circulated (like an AU-48) vs. a mint-state coin. This seems to be a very valuable designation.

 

I have Photograde on order from Amazon, so I am sure there is a wealth of info in there.

[supertooth]

Ok coppertop, I will stick my two cents worth into this. First, if you want to "protect" the coin, then slabbing it would be nice. I prefer NGC----they are the best----but you risk the 30-35 bucks if by some chance they would body bag the coin for any reason. The coin would be guaranteed genuine once in the NGC slab. This is a plus since soooooo many trade dollars are counterfeit. Once in the NGC slab and graded, you would then also know the approximate value.

Now, I also use ANACS. The advantage here is that you do not need to belong to anything to send them the coin. Any person can submit a coin to them. They are not as top rate as NGC but you do not risk a body bag. They will slab the coin[cleaned or not] and then net grade it. So, if you want the slab no matter what, ANACS is an alternative. And, if it comes back OK in an ANACS holder, you can always try later to cross it over into an NGC holder.

Registered Mail is the only way to go----going and coming back. The package is under lock and key the whole way. Must be signed for at each post office it stops at along its route. Put plenty of insurance on it but you are 99%+ sure that it will make it sending it this way. I watch my wife sending my packages all the time. It isn"t that they cannot loose it but somebody will take some grief if they do. Never seen so many stamp marks around a single package!

A third way, as others have mentioned, is to let an ANA member or a dealer send it for you or send it to NCS first. If NCS thinks the coin is OK, they will send it for you to NGC for 3 bucks. Then NGC will slab it.

The key here is to already know, yourself, whether the coin is OK or not. And, since you do not know this, it leaves you with a bunch of choices. Personally the coin looks ok to me BUT you can never be sure of any picture----especially one of a trade dollar. If I had to gamble on this one, I would take a shot at NGC and then hope that I was right. And say a prayer. Bob [supertooth]

[Tradedollarnut]

The coin is genuine and worth 4 figures.

[Oldtrader3]

Coin has an interesting peripheral die crack running through all the lettering. IMHO, I would slab it just to preserve condition and certify grade, but that just an opinion. Many people prefer not to slab circulated pieces.

[jom]

Nobody said it wasn't "worth" slabbing but I submit you'll enjoy the coin more if it isn't entombed in some crappy slab. Being a "four figures" tells me this is true even more....

 

jom

[EZ_E]

The coin is genuine and worth 4 figures.

 

Coppertop, you can take TDN's statement as gospel. Now, based upon its familial history and TDN's thumbsup, you can be quite certain that it is authentic!

 

Slabs will help to protect the coin and will help minimize any further toning. It has a thick skin on it so it is fairly well protected as is but it can still recieve dings and nicks if you're not careful.

 

Do not have the coin conserved. It would ruin it. Most TD's are dipped as it is so the originality of your piece adds to the value and to the eyeappeal!

 

As stated, registered mail is extremely safe. Don't bother insuring it. That would be just a waste of money. Besides, even if it was lost, you would have to prove the value of the contents and, w/o a receipt, that may prove difficult. So insurance is basically a waste of money.

 

I would still choose a grading service where you could send it in yourself. It may be overgraded by a little but who cares since you're keeping it anyway.

 

p.s. TDN, how would you grade the coin?

[coppertop-migration]

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your input and opinions. I do plan on joining NGC and submitting this coin. I have some other coins that are interesting that I will submit with this one. I assume the membership information is clearly laid out somewhere on the site.

 

Thanks in particular to TDN, whose opinion (based on his website - that is your site, isn't it), I hold in very, very high esteem. Very intersting and informative website.

 

Thanks also to the submission guidelines given and all of the tips. I will definately not clean or alter this coin (or any other that I have).

[Tradedollarnut]

TDN, how would you grade the coin?

 

I was trying to avoid that, because the image doesn't show the luster at all. How about somewhere between 58 and 64?

[EZ_E]

TDN, how would you grade the coin?

 

I was trying to avoid that, because the image doesn't show the luster at all. How about somewhere between 58 and 64?

 

I was thinking 55-58.