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Are Heritage auctions real?
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117 posts in this topic

On 6/7/2022 at 4:59 PM, MarkFeld said:

For many of us, there absolutely is a point in paying strong money for common coins - when they’re of exceptional quality and/or beauty and we want to acquire them.

I think you both are saying the same thing.....a generally "common" coin in "exceptional quality and/or beauty"....is  more likelty to be a condition rarity or other exceptional coin. (thumbsu

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Anywhere near any price guide IS the very definition of “very strong money” to me, and honestly, anyone who has spent time in central Pennsylvania knows exactly what I’m talking about. Great fresh material in auctions nearly weekly, literally dozens of active coin clubs, a hyperactive local show scene, and sadly, serious collectors dying with enough regularity to keep the material turning. 

Edited by VKurtB
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On 6/8/2022 at 12:55 PM, VKurtB said:

Anywhere near any price guide IS the very definition of “very strong money” to me, and honestly, anyone who has spent time in central Pennsylvania knows exactly what I’m talking about. Great fresh material in auctions nearly weekly, literally dozens of active coin clubs, a hyperactive local show scene, and sadly, serious collectors dying with enough regularity to keep the material turning. 

...agree, penn is a very active coin area....lots of local estate auctions n several very active clubs...used to travel there for several local auctions, u had to go in person because most of the auctioneers were not well versed in whether coins had been cleaned etc or reluctant to say one way or the other, but abundant material....only problem with price guides is...most r not anywhere near accurate to true values of the rarer choice condition coins, mostly just averages of recent auction results of all conditions of coins in question...condition rarities just dont adhere to price guides....

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On 6/8/2022 at 10:35 PM, Just Bob said:

Getting back to Heritage: I was tracking 7 items in a non-coin auction tonight, and had my eye on a few more. I bid on several, but only won one. Every item I didn't win, and all of the others that I was tracking and watching, were bought by Heritage. In fact, the majority of the lots in this auction were bought by Heritage. I can't see anything fair about this. Their practices are good for sellers. but not for buyers, in my opinion. They are also great for Heritage. :(

How do you know they were bought by Heritage ?

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[Gratuitus comment... I believe our learned colleague, z, to be an outlier and have greatly underestimated him. Granted, he guards his privacy more zealously than some--I do not at all--but taken in a broader context he has something indispensable going for him none of the rest of us have, including me: the luxury of time.

I dare say, if he were to commission an authorized autobiography of his life and times, regardless the length or cost, I would be first in line to purchase a copy.  He [ordinarily] is a gentlemen of few words but the artful way he chooses to use them are a joy to read... this coming from an old whippersnapper who has effectively eviscerated ever rule he has devised, on more than one occasion.]

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On 6/8/2022 at 9:35 PM, Just Bob said:

Getting back to Heritage:

I was tracking 7 items in a non-coin auction tonight, and had my eye on a few more. I bid on several, but only won one. Every item I didn't win, and all of the others that I was tracking and watching, were bought by Heritage. In fact, the majority of the lots in this auction were bought by Heritage. I can't see anything fair about this. Their practices are good for sellers. but not for buyers, in my opinion. They are also great for Heritage. :(

What you described is incorrect. It sounds as if you're talking about "Heritage Live" bidders, (not Heritage, itself) who bid live at the time of the sale, rather than placing internet bids prior to the live sale. Not surprisingly, "Heritage Live" bidders win a great many lots. 

See link below, about "Heritage Live" and if you have questions about this, please feel free to contact me directly. 

https://www.ha.com/c/halive/

Edited by MarkFeld
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On 6/9/2022 at 6:35 AM, MarkFeld said:

What you described is incorrect. It sounds as if you're talking about "Heritage Live" bidders, (not Heritage, itself) who bid live at the time of the sale, rather than placing internet bids prior to the live sale. Not surprisingly, "Heritage Live" bidders win a great many lots. 

See link below, about "Heritage Live" and if you have questions about this, please feel free to contact me directly. 

https://www.ha.com/c/halive/

I stand corrected. Thank you for that information. I will remove my above posts. If you and @GoldFinger1969remove the quotes, my misinformation will not remain on this thread.

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On 6/9/2022 at 7:21 AM, Just Bob said:

I stand corrected. Thank you for that information. I will remove my above posts. If you and @GoldFinger1969remove the quotes, my misinformation will not remain on this thread.

I appreciate that. Still, I will leave my reply up (including your post) for anyone who might have already seen the post and gotten the wrong impression.

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On 6/9/2022 at 8:43 AM, MarkFeld said:

I appreciate that. Still, I will leave my reply up (including your post) for anyone who might have already seen the post and gotten the wrong impression.

Thanks for clarifiying Mark.....I remember that there were times when Heritage was a bidder but it wasn't for any nefarious purposes.  At other places and times by other firms, this process can be abused but I don't think that was the case at HA.

My trust in HA remains.  Still wish they'd offers some deals on those commission rates, though. xD

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On 6/9/2022 at 12:21 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

[Gratuitus comment... I believe our learned colleague, z, to be an outlier and have greatly underestimated him. Granted, he guards his privacy more zealously than some--I do not at all--but taken in a broader context he has something indispensable going for him none of the rest of us have, including me: the luxury of time. I dare say, if he were to commission an authorized autobiography of his life and times, regardless the length or cost, I would be first in line to purchase a copy.  He [ordinarily] is a gentlemen of few words but the artful way he chooses to use them are a joy to read... this coming from an old whippersnapper who has effectively eviscerated ever rule he has devised, on more than one occasion.]

Zadok has great stories and information.  Always love his posts. (thumbsu

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On 6/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, Just Bob said:

I stand corrected. Thank you for that information. I will remove my above posts. If you and @GoldFinger1969remove the quotes, my misinformation will not remain on this thread.

[Gratuitous commentary... I have reason to believe 99.44% of my threads and posts were vandalized or desecrated in my absence.  Expungements effectively destroy the written record. While doing so is your prerogative, it unwittingly gives others the right to proclaim: "You are sadly mistaken. I never said or wrote that."

That is why First Strikes in numismatics are comparable to First Editions by bibliophiles. None of us are infallible and both you and others enjoy sterling reputations. The succeeding posts make that crystal clear.]

 

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On 6/9/2022 at 1:28 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[Gratuitous commentary... I have reason to believe 99.44% of my threads and posts were vandalized or desecrated in my absence.  Expungements effectively destroy the written record. While doing so is your prerogative, it unwittingly gives others the right to proclaim: "You are sadly mistaken. I never said or wrote that."

I remind all:  if you see interesting material here, save it to your PC (PDF or Word doc) so you have it.  Computer glitches happen all the time...servers go down....NGC might not do anything but be the victim of something and a valuable thread like the RWB Saints Thread can disappear (64 pages and counting).

I back up that thread every 5 pages or so. (thumbsu

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On 6/9/2022 at 12:21 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

[Gratuitus comment... I believe our learned colleague, z, to be an outlier and have greatly underestimated him. Granted, he guards his privacy more zealously than some--I do not at all--but taken in a broader context he has something indispensable going for him none of the rest of us have, including me: the luxury of time.

I dare say, if he were to commission an authorized autobiography of his life and times, regardless the length or cost, I would be first in line to purchase a copy.  He [ordinarily] is a gentlemen of few words but the artful way he chooses to use them are a joy to read... this coming from an old whippersnapper who has effectively eviscerated ever rule he has devised, on more than one occasion.]

...its all classified....outlier?, is that one those little houses u go to when u dont have indoor plumbing?...

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On 6/9/2022 at 1:28 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[Gratuitous commentary... I have reason to believe 99.44% of my threads and posts were vandalized or desecrated in my absence.  Expungements effectively destroy the written record. While doing so is your prerogative, it unwittingly gives others the right to proclaim: "You are sadly mistaken. I never said or wrote that."

That is why First Strikes in numismatics are comparable to First Editions by bibliophiles. None of us are infallible and both you and others enjoy sterling reputations. The succeeding posts make that crystal clear.]

 

Members cannot make changes to your posts, only moderators/administrators. If you were quoted by another member, they can change/delete their post with the quote, but not your Original post.

If your posts have vandalized or desecrated, that would have to have been done by the admin and I would think they must have had a specific reason.

Edited by Oldhoopster
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@Oldhoopster

In point of fact, you're right. I thought I was the target of a drone strike choreographed by Dena, but she is no longer an administrator having since been elevated to a prestigious position--with a title to match. Her legacy endures in a potent phrase:  "Be Nice, or Be Gone."

(BTW, It warms the cockles of my heart to learn I was sorely missed by you.)  :roflmao:

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On 6/9/2022 at 2:53 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

@Oldhoopster

In point of fact, you're right. I thought I was the target of a drone strike choreographed by Dena, but she is no longer an administrator having since been elevated to a prestigious position--with a title to match. Her legacy endures in a potent phrase:  "Be Nice, or Be Gone."

(BTW, It warms the cockles of my heart to learn I was sorely missed by you.)  :roflmao:

I had all of my heart’s cockles removed during an earlier surgery. 

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On 6/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, Just Bob said:

I stand corrected. Thank you for that information. I will remove my above posts. If you and @GoldFinger1969remove the quotes, my misinformation will not remain on this thread.

...honest mistake....floor bids, absentee bids, phone bids, internet bids, heritage live bids....hard to not get lost on who is bidding...

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On 6/9/2022 at 9:00 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'll see you and raise you a myectomy.....xD

Much obliged; a recurrence is a real possibility.

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On 6/7/2022 at 4:59 PM, MarkFeld said:

For many of us, there absolutely is a point in paying strong money for common coins - when they’re of exceptional quality and/or beauty and we want to acquire them.

I know people do that.  It's substantially an outcome of the financialization of collecting.

Treat it as a consumption expense and it doesn't matter.  At any "meaningful" price point as determined by the buyer, anecdotal evidence indicates they usually don't.  It's based upon the belief that they will recover most, all, or more of their money back.

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On 6/7/2022 at 8:04 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think you both are saying the same thing.....a generally "common" coin in "exceptional quality and/or beauty"....is  more likelty to be a condition rarity or other exceptional coin. (thumbsu

No, not really.  I infer from my prior posts he knows what I mean.  What you are describing is a form of rarity under modern (financialized) US collecting.

From our prior post exchanges, you know my thoughts on the future financial prospects for this type of coin. 

If someone doesn't care if they lose a noticeable proportion of their purchase price, great.  At any price the collector deems "meaningful", the available evidence (mostly from coin forums and coin articles) indicates the vast majority do.

To believe otherwise is to concurrently believe that collectors miraculously experienced a collective epiphany in the late 1980's.  They didn't.

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On 6/16/2022 at 10:07 PM, World Colonial said:

I know people do that.  It's substantially an outcome of the financialization of collecting.

Treat it as a consumption expense and it doesn't matter.  At any "meaningful" price point as determined by the buyer, anecdotal evidence indicates they usually don't.  It's based upon the belief that they will recover most, all, or more of their money back.

...possibly u mite be over thinking this thing....seems to me its much simpler.....if u collect something n u need/want it to complete ur collection, u just buy it if u have the means to pay for it...not really a question of present or future worth, just a question of getting it or possibly never being able to get it again....fairly basic concept...i know i personally do not consider todays price or future possible prices for a coin i want/need, i let the other bidders do that n then i bid one more time when they stop...less thinking that way...

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On 6/16/2022 at 10:18 PM, zadok said:

...possibly u mite be over thinking this thing....seems to me its much simpler.....if u collect something n u need/want it to complete ur collection, u just buy it if u have the means to pay for it...not really a question of present or future worth, just a question of getting it or possibly never being able to get it again....fairly basic concept...i know i personally do not consider todays price or future possible prices for a coin i want/need, i let the other bidders do that n then i bid one more time when they stop...less thinking that way...

For what I buy, I don't either, to a point.  Usually, I have to buy what comes up for sale when it comes up for sale or get "locked out", as there isn't another opportunity anytime soon.  For some coins I didn't buy, not a second chance since.

Going back to my prior post, I know some collectors do the opposite of what I stated. Most collectors agree with my post because, above a relatively nominal price, they do not treat this type of purchase as a predominant consumption expense.

Ultimately, it's based upon someone's approach to collecting.

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On 6/16/2022 at 10:28 PM, World Colonial said:

For what I buy, I don't either, to a point.  Usually, I have to buy what comes up for sale when it comes up for sale or get "locked out", as there isn't another opportunity anytime soon.  For some coins I didn't buy, not a second chance since.

Going back to my prior post, I know some collectors do the opposite of what I stated. Most collectors agree with my post because, above a relatively nominal price, they do not treat this type of purchase as a predominant consumption expense.

Ultimately, it's based upon someone's approach to collecting.

...agree....my approach is to acquire the item in question, not consider its relative value whatever it is relative to?....each purchase is unique unto itself....

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Dang. I basically stopped posting here when the company limited their registry (though I understand that has now been reversed), and now I see that I cheated myself out of 6 years of this gem of a thread. :roflmao:

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On 6/22/2022 at 8:17 PM, CSdot said:

Dang. I basically stopped posting here when the company limited their registry (though I understand that has now been reversed), and now I see that I cheated myself out of 6 years of this gem of a thread. :roflmao:

Lots of good threads with large numbers of post beyond this....a few on gold coins (including Saints) and some interesting "quickie" threads where Roger posted rare/unique but interesting information (old letters, etc).

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