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LDS - late die state

4 posts in this topic

I am correct in my thinking?


A late die state would provide more die cracks and lower relief on the details, giving the impression the coin is lower in grade that it actually is.Also, the dies would probably be taken out of service relatively soon.


It seems that regarding Bust coins, this may actually increase many posters interest in the coin. Is this true on many type coins?


How would LDS reflect on a gold coin?


I'm asking because I submitted a gold coin to Coneca and the submission form stated LDS.


Thanks in advance,


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If you are asking if LDS stands for Late Die State, you're correct. Depending on the series, a LDS coin may or may not exhibit strike deterioration, die cracks, lower relief, etc. In the Jefferson series, there where many years that the mints kept stamping out coins regardless of the condition of the dies or the coins they produced. The hardness of the metal used to make nickels and the need for a precise annealing temp of the metal sheets prior to coining were two very important reasons (with others) that seems to have kept an entire years worth of minted Jeffs in a permanent LDS (or at least MDS) strike quality.


Regarding Bust and/or gold, I'll have to make room for someone more knowledgeable in those areas.

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Although being a late die-state implies some die cracks, this is not fool-proof! Many dies had die-cracks eradicated by heavy polishing. Thus, a coin struck from late dies might well show fewer die-cracks than an earlier die-state, but of course poorer as-struck detail as well.


Here's a generic, classic example that frequently occurs in Bust series (and early copper, as well as any other series):


PRIME - brand new dies

No clashes or die-cracks!


EDS - early die-state

Coins are struck with nice, fresh detail, but normal die deterioration is gradually observed.


MDS - middle die-state

Clashed dies occur, with each die imparting detail on the other. Also, the clashing results in minor cracks on one or both dies. Alternatively, die-cracks result merely from ongoing die-usage.


LDS - late die-state

Die(s) are heavily polished to remove the clash marks, as well as some of the die cracks.


TDS - terminal die-state

Die(s) shatter, resulting in a few end-of-run coins with extreme die-cracks.


Terms such as "early MDS" or "late MDS" are used too, again to help distinguish, for example, whether the coin had clashed dies that were recently polished, or clashed again after polishing.


In general, you're thinking along the correct lines!



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I was hoping to hear from you. Most of what you said, I anticipated. Although, I was neglecting die polishing.


I can't tell you how much help you've been to me already.


This coin I was asking about is weak on the high points but otherwise looks UNC to me. Could be a slider, but the submission form indicates LDS so maybe I will get lucky.



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