Meiji 7 (1874) Japanese Trade Dollar (Pattern)

[Plav5-migration]

I have a Meiji 7 Japanese Trade Dollar (Pattern). I know most existing ones are copies and are easily identified by their insufficient weight. The one I have is 38.6mm in Diameter and weighs 26.9g. My scale only does 1/10ths. Most guides list it as 38.6mm/27.22g. Is there a way to tell for sure whether it is authentic and worth having certified?

 

Thanks for the help

Keith

[shirohniichan]

If you post a photo we can look for telltale signs of a counterfeit.

 

I'm sure you already know this, but your coin appears to be a bit on the heavy side.

[satootoko]

I have a Meiji 7 Japanese Trade Dollar (Pattern).

I assume you are talking about the one listed by Krause (Pn25) as "rare", and valued at ¥4-8-million in the 2005 JNDA catalog (§05 8th coin). That's the one without borders around the central dragon, or around the legends. It's also listed by Jacobs & Vermuele as R1, but isn't listed at all by Cummings.

I know most existing ones are copies and are easily identified by their insufficient weight. The one I have is 38.6mm in Diameter and weighs 26.9g. My scale only does 1/10ths. Most guides list it as 38.6mm/27.22g.

It's not "most" guides that give a 27.22g weight - they all do because it's embossed right on the coin: "420 grains .900 fine". Convert 420 grains to grams, increase that by 11.1% to account for the copper content (10% of total weight), and you have 27.22g.

 

The correct weight for the contemporaneous 416 grain ¥1 coins is 26.9568g which quite nicely matches the weight your scale gives for the coin, within a +/1 one increment margin of error. (I think Shiroh must have read the weights in your posting backwards, as your coin is light, not heavy, for what it claims to be.)

 

Cast copies offered by Chinese sellers on EBay appear quite frequently, and at least some of them match your weight.

 

Please post pictures of both sides, with sufficiently high resolution to let us view the surfaces.

[Plav5-migration]

I don't have a lot of experience taking pictures of coins so let me know if these are good enough. Here is the reverse next will be the obverse. Thanks again for your help.

 

Keith

[Plav5-migration]

Here is the Obverse.

[satootoko]

Sorry Keith.

 

There are just too many discrepancies in detail between your pictures and the ones in the JNDA catalog and Krause. My usual limit for counterfeit coins is 10 bucks, but I might have been persuaded to go $15-20 for this one, if it werent so horribly whizzed.

 

Among the most obvious problems are:

 

• The "T" is not in the correct position with relation to the "G" above it.
• The dot after "GRAINS" should be directly above the space betwen the "D" and the "O".
• The "E" and the "D" should be closer together.
• The ribbon below "BO EKI GIN" is wrong, particularly on the lower left.
• There are subtle errors in the calligraphy of some of the Kanji characters.

 

(BTW the obverse is the side with the English lettering.)

 

The surface doesn't look like a casting to me, but sometimes a good whizzing will conceal telltale bubbling.

 

But don't just take my word on this my friend. You're not so far from Tokyo, so some weekday afternoon run up there and take the Yamanote Line to Hammamatsucho, the station right by the Tokyo Tower. From there it's just a short walk to World Coins Japan, where you can get an expert's opinion on the coin instead of my opinion on pictures.

 

Call them at 03-5777-0351 to get directions from the station, and verify that their hours are still 11 a.m. to 7 p.m. Don't let their second floor location in a kind of seedy looking building fool you - they are one of my favorite dealers..

[Plav5-migration]

That's OK. Thanks for looking at it. You have a good eye for detail. I see what you mean about calligraphy on the reverse. It has the reverse of a trade dollar from years 8-10. The letter size for the words "420 grains. 900 fine." is too small.

 

Fortunately I didn't pay much for it. It is still fun collecting the Japanese coins while I'm stationed here. I go to a lot of shrine sales which is a lot like a flea market. They always have coins which most are copies. Every now and then I'll find a real one.

 

I am actually going to the 16th annual Tokyo International Coin show the end of this month. I hope to see lots of interesting coins and maybe even find a good deal. I'll be up near the Tokyo Tower during the same time. I'll visit the coin store you mentioned.

 

Thanks,

Keith

[shirohniichan]

It looks like th counterfeiter had a difficult time getting the lettering for the weight and fineness to fit properly above the words "TRADE DOLLAR".

[toyonakataro]

I am actually going to the 16th annual Tokyo International Coin show the end of this month. I hope to see lots of interesting coins and maybe even find a good deal. I'll be up near the Tokyo Tower during the same time. I'll visit the coin store you mentioned.

 

If you are to attend the show, I'm pretty sure that "world coins japan" will be there at the show. I don't like the owner, but his son and other stuff are friendly.

I also recommend "ginza coins"....one of the most respected dealer in Japan.

Good luck with the show