Refinishing my Large Cent

[RGT]

Way back in early 1998 in my first months buying on ebay I picked up an 1828 large cent that was graded EF by the seller. I don't recall if the auction had an image (many didn't back then) but I didn't save it if it did. The seller told me in an email that the coin had been broken out of an ANACS EF45 slab. For some reason, I doubt that now.

 

When I received the coin I noticed it was pretty dark, but not being very familiar with large cents I thought that might just be the result of the copper mix or whatever. I don't remember why I did it, but I remember wiping a spot on the coin with a soft cloth. The cloth turned brown like I had just wiped some shoe polish off. For some reason I certainly can't explain now I decided not to return the coin.

 

Over the years I've had my doubts about this coin but I never showed it around for opinions or messed with it. Here is a picture I took last year with my old camera. It's not a very good picture but it will have to do.

 

 

A few weeks ago I got the coin out again and it really started to bug me. I decided to give it a soak in olive oil to see what would happen. It already looked like it had some gunk on it so I didn't think I could hurt it. About three weeks later I checked on it. This is what I saw when I picked up the little jar it was soaking in.

 

 

Now I have no idea what was on this thing, but it seemed to be coming off and it was blue-green. I took the coin out and blotted it on a tissue. The tissue turned colors and the coin started to look like old furniture that is being stripped for refinishing. I gently wiped the coin and the dark goop started to come off. Here is what the coin looks like now.

 

 

This picture was taken with a much better camera and better lighting. What could have been on this coin to turn the oil that color? I plan to get some fresh oil and let it soak a few more weeks. I think there is still some of the stuff on the coin.

 

I've managed to pick up some great buys on ebay and I've picked up some dogs. This has got to be the most messed with coin that I've gotten, at least of the ones I didn't send back immediately. I bought a lot of raw coins on ebay in the early days and did all right on most and even got some real bargains. But I've pretty much given up on raw coins there any more. I'm sure there are a lot more like this out there waiting to be sold to some gullable soul like myself. Actually, I knew better at the time but kept the coin any way. I have no idea why.

[TomB]

The first images of your coin make it appear attractive, yet with obvious verdigris in the left obverse field and on the portrait. The second images make the coin look as though it had been in an acidic dip to expose the underlying metal and remove the corrosion and was then treated with a neutralizing agent and Dealer's Darkener in order to make it look like it was original. There was too much Dealer's Darkener applied to the coin. If you continue soaking it I think you will get a more orange looking coin.

 

By the way, some olive oils will have acids in them that will also eat away at copper.

[Hoot]

Although it's not a high-priced coin, would it still be worth sending to NCS? You could get it back raw, or have it graded by NCS (I rather like their slabs). The coin has nice detail, and for what it's worth, it may turn out in the long-term (perhaps after you're long dead ) to regain a good bit of original character if properly curated and then stored in the right conditions. I actually think the coin has some chance to turn out acceptably nice if the curation is done properly. Just a thought.

 

Hoot

[RGT]

Tom, I never knew any kind of olive oil could damage copper. I've used it a few times in the past, mostly with little effect, good or bad. What I used this time was "extra virgin", whatever that means.

 

I thought it might have had Deller's applied, but I've never actually used it or seen a coin that I knew it was used on. I actually thought it might have had some really old olive oil left on it since there was obviously something left in the crevices, which is why I decided to try to desolve it in fresh olive oil. I never expected the brown to come off and the oil to turn blue. Could it actually be acid in the oil forming a copper compound that is turning the oil blue? The new lighter areas don't appear to have that pinkish "cleaned copper" look to them but they don't blend well with the areas that are still dark. I wish I knew what the coin looked like before it was messed with.

 

Hoot, I'm not sure it would be worth sending to NCS. I did pay a pretty good price for the coin, but it looks like the "salvage value" might be considerably less. I plan on getting some Blue Ribbon to get the PVC haze off of some Lincolns. I may try it on this coin and see what happens.

 

Does anyone know how to get old copper to tone back to a nice brown? Getting that vertigris off without damaging the coin might be an impossible task. What are the "right conditions" to store it? I'm thinking my grandkids might appreciate it some day.

[BankNote1]

The olive oil didn't do anything to your coin. If you look closely at the first set of Pix you can see the green goo all over the coin. It sort of looks like PVC!? PVC goop is green and it will eat away at the metal in a coin. Have you rinsed the coin in acetone? I still see some of the green stuff in the #2 photo?

 

Once the surface of a coin is damaged it can't be repaired.

[Hoot]

Hoot, I'm not sure it would be worth sending to NCS. I did pay a pretty good price for the coin, but it looks like the "salvage value" might be considerably less. I plan on getting some Blue Ribbon to get the PVC haze off of some Lincolns. I may try it on this coin and see what happens.

 

Just FYI, It would likely be a $15 job by NCS, depending on how you value the coin, and a $15 slab, if you want that, plus postage.

 

Oh, and the extra virgin olive oil is the least acidic variety.

 

Hoot

[RGT]

I think the olive oil just disolved whatever it was on the coin. I've never heard of olive oil disolving PVC, but I don't know. I think the green is vertigris that someone tried to paint over with something to hide it. I haven't tried acetone yet but I will at some point, if only to get all the oil off.

 

Hoot, I don't think I can send directly to NCS since I'm not a member. The few coins I send it are through a local dealer. He has never used NCS and I doubt he would want to bother sending it for me. I'm still not convinced it would be worth $15 plus postage. I think I have something like $125 in the coin but I'm not sure what it would sell for given an honest discription instead of a fresh coat of paint and a sales pitch. This one may just go into my lessons learned box to be burried with me.

[coin1960-migration]

I know i'm a nobody but with my copper coins that have buildup of dirt or foreign matter, I use xylol and then coat with blue ribbon. Any thoughts from you guys on xylol?

[Hoot]

xylol = xylene, is a good cleaning agent, as it's not reactive to metals, at least in the short-term. You should just handle it in a well-vented area and not get it on your skin.

 

Hoot

[EZ_E]

I very seriously doubt that NCS will conserve it. They are very, very hesitant on messing with anything with copper in it. Even CuNi coins.

 

If you are an ANA member, you can apply to submit coins free from a membership charge.

[James_OldeTowne]

Randy, you got nailed by Coin Kare (I think that's how they spell it). Many porous copper coins were treated with that stuff to make them appear nicer than they really are.

 

I'll tell you a quick, true story. A few years ago when I was just learning the ropes as a dealer, a certain coin doctor "befriended" me (and my business partner) and "took us under his wing". I'll never forget the time that he had us over to his shop, a dimly lit, dingy little place on a run down street. In the back was the "lab", with vials and test tubes full of funky chemicals. He had a stockpile of "Kare" on the bench, and several piles of coppers in various stages of "work".

 

Some of the coins were "waiting", and some were in the "preparation" stage, with the corrosion and environmental damage either acid-treated off the coin, or literally sanded or whizzed of mechancially. Various coins were in intermediate stages, sitting in pools of chemical sludge, or fuming in bottles of sulphur and other chemical soups. Finally, there were the "finished" coins, with thick, greasy coatings of various chemical sludges stuck to them. It was as nauseating a scenes as I've ever observed, and it was all I could do not to be sick right there in "the lab".

 

To make a long story short, coins with the exact surface corrosion problem as yours were routinely stripped down to bare, pink metal, recolored, and the "Coin Kare-d" to make the surfaces appear nicer and less-corroded. My understanding is that the Kare product fills in the gaps and craters left by removed corrosion, and makes the surfaces appear smoother, and then the whole mess is recolored with pigments.

 

I have seen a Classic Head large (1810 if I recall correctly) in a major slab graded VF-30 that this coin doctor claimed was his handiwork, and it looked fantastic to me, BUT, most of the stuff I've seen done like this is pure garbage.

 

For what it's worth, I think your coin suffered a similar fate as many of those in "the lab". Your original image looks EXACTLY like the coins that were "finished". And by the way, this particular coin doctor is still VERY active today.

 

James

[RGT]

Thanks for the input and the horror story, James. I suppose I could have just played ignorant and sold the coin on ebay as it was, but I was pretty sure it wasn't original and I would have felt guilty about doing that. I never suspected it had been messed with quite so much.

 

I put it in fresh oil a few days ago and it has already turned green too. The obverse is even lighter now than it was and is really showing the pink color of cleaned copper now. The reverse is a bit lighter but is still mostly brown. The surfaces do have some corrosion but it's not real bad.

 

I'm not sure if I want to continue soaking it until I get all the stuff off or just until it doesn't look like it's got a thick coat on it (which is probably about now). I know cleaned copper will never look qoiginal again but I'm hoping it will age to something somewhat acceptable again some day.