Countering unfair dealer practices online

[MJ]

Coins aren't fungible and grading is subjective.

 

The trigger is pulled by the buyer......not the seller

 

mark

[World Colonial]

Yes, I agree with you. What I am saying is mistakes in applying this subjectivity are increasingly expensive.

 

I don't know how many buyers are turned off by what I included in my last post. I can't afford to buy the coins others do (including you from your posts here and on PCGS) but I can spend a lot more than I do. I find these micro differences which inflate the price level a huge turn-off. As you stated, I won't be pulling the trigger on any coin whose price is heavily influenced by it.

 

 

[MJ]

Yes, I agree with you. What I am saying is mistakes in applying this subjectivity are increasingly expensive.

 

I don't know how many buyers are turned off by what I included in my last post. I can't afford to buy the coins others do (including you from your posts here and on PCGS) but I can spend a lot more than I do. I find these micro differences which inflate the price level a huge turn-off. As you stated, I won't be pulling the trigger on any coin whose price is heavily influenced by it.

 

 

Well stated.

 

I move on and stay away whenever I don't love the vibe. In the end sellers in any business can ask or act whatever or however they want and it doesn't effect me in the least.

 

mark

[MarkVIIIMarc]

At least coins are a luxury item not a necessity. People can be driven broke buying medicine or food which are necessary. Buying coins as an investment is gambling.

[VPhillips]

The best way to combat unfair inflated pricing and pressure is homework, homework, homework. If you know that BID is at $100 and ASK is at $110, and a dealer wants $150 then you had better REALLY want that coin and pay the dealer's inflated price, or negotiate it down as best you can with the pricing knowledge you have.

 

Or, the dealer might be able to provide new information, (and show proof), that you're not aware of. Example:

 

BID $100 ASK $110 However, 3 recent auctions of the exact same grade of coin just closed for a realized price average of $155... The dealer is asking $150. Looks like that particular coin's value is certainly on the rise, and it might be wise to buy it for the price they are wanting.

 

Otherwise, when it's all said and done, you always have the right in person to simply walk away. Or; if online, to not press the "buy" button...

[bourse28]

Coin pricing is subjective and in many instances based on cost plus. If coin BIN / Make offer simply make your offer using the ebay / make offer button. Otherwise you should simply shop around.

 

People believing coins are over priced are very common. Sometimes its lack of money . Buyers need to take responsibility and consult their pricing resources before making a buying decision. There is no free ride in numismatics and nobody is going to do your homework for you.

 

I see people on the bourse who want to buy at wholesale and then get frustrated when this is not going to happen. Perhaps they should open a coin shop.......

 

 

 

 

[World Colonial]

You aren't telling me anything I do not know. I am not a novice at this process.

 

First, for the coins I buy, there is no shopping around for the most part. With a few exceptions, they aren't available in multiple within close proximity at all, never mind in the same grade. Since I don't buy any US coins, some I own as a date or even as a type are almost impossible to buy and this is in any grade.

 

eBay has become more of a fixed price format and from what I can see, disproportionately at fantasy ask prices. I see the same coins listed for months if not years. Sometimes the sellers lower the prices to move them but on other occasions, I have seen them increase it. They are either trying to rip off their buyers or are utterly clueless about their "real" value.

 

Outside of eBay on the dealer comments I made earlier, some of the coins I see on those websites probably are sold in the vicinity of their "real" value. In most instances though, I believe the buyer who paid a US level premium (for eye appeal and grade) is either hopelessly "buried" in it or at best paid years of future appreciation in advance.

 

When I have attended coin shows such as the ANA or Long Beach, there has been almost nothing I want to buy either since for the series I collect, my collection is easily better than any dealer who shows up. (The same applies to dealer websites).

 

I wouldn't know about the coins you see the public trying to buy at wholesale because I am not one of them.

 

Regardless of the outlet, I don't care what the dealer paid. I have an idea of what the coins I want to buy are worth and where I don't really know because its a guess, I'll pay what I think is a fair price. I don't buy much from dealers anyway because most of the time, I would rather compete against them at public auction because usually, that's where they are getting the coins I collect anyway. I see coins listed on their websites I could have bought for less and if I had wanted it badly enough, I would have outbid them.

 

[bourse28]

I have found lots of good ebay prices for BIN. It is the biggest coin show. I have bought BIN, Make Offer, and Auction and been very satisfied w ebay.

 

There are both good and bad sellers there like anywhere else. Coins are not the only thing I buy on ebay and love those ebay bucks. Nowadays, I manage my ebay buying and selling form my phone which is a big plus.

 

 

 

 

 

[World Colonial]

I presume you are buying (mostly) US coins on eBay while I buy others. As an example, recently, there were 683 South African lots in NGC holders listed and of these, only 38 were a "true auction". The rest were BIN. I cannot tell you how many were "fairly" priced because I don't look at all of them but of those I notice, they are disproportionately overpriced by a "country mile". The 38 "true" auctions were also disproportionately at inflated prices.

 

Of course, this is only one example but I believe it isn't that unusual of eBay for "world" coins because I see the same thing fro two of my other series, Bolivia and Spanish colonial. The coins I recall seeing there for months or years are never going to sell at anywhere near the ask prices. Unlike many countries, the market level is predominantly set in South Africa (not the United States or elsewhere), the local currency has crashed and ZAR (Rand) prices have also crashed, the latter two since late 2011 or sometime in 2012. Since there is little demand for most of these coins outside of South Africa except at discounts to a South Africa price, the coins just sit and these sellers are just increasing the size of their ultimate loss through their ignorance or denial.

 

Another way I know these are "stupid money ask prices" is because when a coin is actually listed at a real "true" auction (99c or maybe $9.99), it invariably sells for much less than one of these roughly comparable relisted BIN coins. I have some coins I want to get rid of and I know I am going to take a large proportional (though small absolute) loss.

 

Up until about 2010, I found a lot of good coins at low or reasonable prices, from any number of countries. Now, not so much even though the selection for my series is better because the prices are higher.

[bourse28]

I have certain custom ebay searches like (PCGS, NGC, PMG) then may filter in only auctions and usually look at items that only have bids. Or may filter auctions with lowest first. I may do a search to see what other sellers are asking for an item I have, many times changing my price to be under theirs. If they looking for pie in sky prices I have no problem beating them as to price.

 

I may run a search for PMG notes and zero in on graded world banknotes. Then research prices in Krause and put bid in AS say 60% or 70% of book. AS gives me option to monitor auctions and delete them selectively. Or I may bid on a MS69 ASE at BV +$15 as a max bid. Today I won a barber 50c in VG for around $10 where CDN Bid is $18.

 

I have found it tough to win quality slabbed world coins at my price. There seems to be a lot of competition for this material. I buy slabbed world gold coins and lots of competition from other bidders. I ignore BIN prices on this stuff as they way over what I want to pay.

 

I do very few BIN buys in Coins and Currency. Anything I buy or bid on I research in Coin Facts, CDN, CW, or other market info.

 

I don't necessarily look at prices as fair or unfair as I am screening out ones higher than what I want to bid or pay (so whether they are fair or not is a moot issue due to my time constraints) as I am looking to retail this stuff at show or from store. I may occasionally notice some guys price seems way out there like wanting moon money wondering if he really expects he can get that.