Newest Toned Peace Pick-up....

[jerseycat10]

 

As much as it pains me to do, I am going to have to agree with Roger here.

 

Just muse to yourself about the possible number of old silver dollar collections languishing in attics, basements, and bookshelves in homes across the country. There are probably numerous monster toned Peace dollars that simply haven't surfaced to the market yet.

 

Considering that the coins were produced roughly 90 years ago and the major grading companies have been in business for about 30 years, if those coins haven't surfaced by now, who knows when or if they will? All collectors can do is try to obtain the ones that are known to be available and keep in mind that others might surface at a future time.

 

Without referencing actuarial tables, the population of people most likely to possess such collections is dwindling, and their assets are becoming available via estate sales and inheritances sold to both scrupulous and unscrupulous dealers. As long as they aren't cleaned in the process, we should continue to see fresh coins for a few more decades.

[MarkFeld]

 

As much as it pains me to do, I am going to have to agree with Roger here.

 

Just muse to yourself about the possible number of old silver dollar collections languishing in attics, basements, and bookshelves in homes across the country. There are probably numerous monster toned Peace dollars that simply haven't surfaced to the market yet.

 

Considering that the coins were produced roughly 90 years ago and the major grading companies have been in business for about 30 years, if those coins haven't surfaced by now, who knows when or if they will? All collectors can do is try to obtain the ones that are known to be available and keep in mind that others might surface at a future time.

 

Without referencing actuarial tables, the population of people most likely to possess such collections is dwindling, and their assets are becoming available via estate sales and inheritances sold to both scrupulous and unscrupulous dealers. As long as they aren't cleaned in the process, we should continue to see fresh coins for a few more decades.

 

I don't disagree with that. But I believe only a very small percentage of such coins will garner stars. And that is what this discussion has focused on.

[Walkerfan]

Beautiful coin. I really, really like it. STAR peace dollars are just so scarce. Congrats to you!

[jerseycat10]

 

Without referencing actuarial tables, the population of people most likely to possess such collections is dwindling, and their assets are becoming available via estate sales and inheritances sold to both scrupulous and unscrupulous dealers. As long as they aren't cleaned in the process, we should continue to see fresh coins for a few more decades.

 

I don't disagree with that. But I believe only a very small percentage of such coins will garner stars. And that is what this discussion has focused on.

 

I will counter that the coins I refer to have been in their respective storage spaces for a fairly long time, perhaps long enough to yield a higher percentage of attractively toned specimens. Part of me wants to make a Craigslist ad to seek out such collections, if for nothing else, to look for such specimens.

[MarkFeld]

 

Without referencing actuarial tables, the population of people most likely to possess such collections is dwindling, and their assets are becoming available via estate sales and inheritances sold to both scrupulous and unscrupulous dealers. As long as they aren't cleaned in the process, we should continue to see fresh coins for a few more decades.

 

I don't disagree with that. But I believe only a very small percentage of such coins will garner stars. And that is what this discussion has focused on.

 

I will counter that the coins I refer to have been in their respective storage spaces for a fairly long time, perhaps long enough to yield a higher percentage of attractively toned specimens. Part of me wants to make a Craigslist ad to seek out such collections, if for nothing else, to look for such specimens.

 

And I will counter that longer term storage wouldn't make them any more likely to have become attractively toned. In other words, 90+ years, vs 85, 80, 75, etc. probably wont make any difference.

[TonerGuy]

"Thousands likely dont exist... Ive been searching for them for 15 years."

 

Funny. You are one person looking through a few thousand coins out of hundreds of millions. Your comments about availability are nothing more than a pleasant diversion, not based on objective investigation.

 

Fun to do - yes....

 

Okay let's talk scientific objective numbers then... Since you are the world's foremost expert on Peace $ I have a few questions...

 

The total mintage of all Peace $ through all years is 190,000,000. Not quite "hundreds of millions." But you probably already knew that.

 

Do you think 190,000,000 Peace $ still exist or do you believe that some found their way into smelters hands over the past 50 years during price spike of silver ?

 

Out of the 190,000,000 how many do you believe still exist today ? How many do you believe exist in MS condition ?

 

PCGS has graded 555,000 and NGC has graded 684,000 approx. for a total of 1,239,000 total coins... do you think that represents 1/10 1/100 or 1/150th of the total remaining Peace $ is existence ?

 

As for the number of Peace $ I have seen probably is closer to 100,000 or more over the course of 15 years, between dealer websites, Ebay and coin shows...

 

Right now there are 18,000 Peace $ for sale on Ebay and Ive seen every single one (I have a boring life I suppose....).

 

I am very interested in your answers to what you believe the existing population of Peace $ could be...

 

At what point does 15 years of research/tracking/searching become objective investigation instead of pleasant diversion ?

 

I will counter that the coins I refer to have been in their respective storage spaces for a fairly long time, perhaps long enough to yield a higher percentage of attractively toned specimens. Part of me wants to make a Craigslist ad to seek out such collections, if for nothing else, to look for such specimens.

 

 

Im not only basing my conclusions on my own anecdotal evidence of searching for toned Peace $ over 15 years but also the statistics provided by our hosts. To assume that 685,000 Peace $ have been graded but the really nicely toned ones are sitting in a vault/attic/bank is somewhat myopic. But I will play along... Sure there could be a hoard. We've seen Peace $ hoards come to market before.

 

One is the Binion hoard. Try finding beautifully toned Binion Peace $ - they are rare as well. And now try to find * toned Binion Peace $ - even more rare.

 

Okay, its not the Binion Hoard you say... try the Redfield Hoard... oh wait... again, not that many nice toners and even less * coins than from the Binion Hoard...

 

I track those coins as well.

 

Peace $ were never that popular. Therefore the coins themselves probably havent been collected to a high degree in MS condition making the likelihood of finding the Hoard on Craiglist even less likely.

 

Ive watched tracked the number of new * Peace $ graded every year over the past 4-5 years. It has remained relatively consistent. I dont see that changing.

 

Maybe there is a Hoard waiting to be found on Craigslist by JerseyCat... and maybe he makes 100 * toned Peace $ from such collection but that would only increase the total to 305, not hardly a situation that would make them common by any means.

 

And I hope you find them because I would like to purchase some of them...

 

 

[jerseycat10]

 

One is the Binion hoard. Try finding beautifully toned Binion Peace $ - they are rare as well. And now try to find * toned Binion Peace $ - even more rare.

 

Okay, its not the Binion Hoard you say... try the Redfield Hoard... oh wait... again, not that many nice toners and even less * coins than from the Binion Hoard...

 

 

I respectfully disagree with these statements. In fact, I think the polar opposite is true. By volume, I think it is easier to find a rainbow Binion/Redfield than it is to find a rainbow NON-hoard coin. I have owned several star designated binions, and also a monster redfield. If you search for redfield peace on ebay, most of those have had toning imparted on them.

 

My anecdotal evidence above could be strictly that, just anecdotal, but since it supports my previous hypothesis, I'm going to stick with it

 

For your viewing pleasure, here's a Binion from my collection:

[TonerGuy]

 

One is the Binion hoard. Try finding beautifully toned Binion Peace $ - they are rare as well. And now try to find * toned Binion Peace $ - even more rare.

 

Okay, its not the Binion Hoard you say... try the Redfield Hoard... oh wait... again, not that many nice toners and even less * coins than from the Binion Hoard...

 

 

I respectfully disagree with these statements. In fact, I think the polar opposite is true. By volume, I think it is easier to find a rainbow Binion/Redfield than it is to find a rainbow NON-hoard coin. I have owned several star designated binions, and also a monster redfield. If you search for redfield peace on ebay, most of those have had toning imparted on them.

 

My anecdotal evidence above could be strictly that, just anecdotal, but since it supports my previous hypothesis, I'm going to stick with it

 

For your viewing pleasure, here's a Binion from my collection:

 

Is that one a * coin ?

 

Unforuntately, NGC doesnt separately list Binion or Refield Hoard * coins so Ive had to do the tedious leg work of compiling the data over the past 5 years or so. The number of * toned Binions isnt as great as you believe or they are all tied up in collections and never come to market. Which might be true. The best * toned Binion that I have ever found (MS65*) is off the market and will remain off the market until I pass. Ive never seen a Binion MS66* example but they might exist. I have probably only encountered less than 20 * toned Binion coins.

 

Heritage only has 1 NGC Binion * example in their auction archives... But they do have 30 or so non-Hoard toned * examples they have sold over the years. There were 0 result on Ebay for * toned Binions sold in the last 90 days or so.

 

http://coins.ha.com/itm/peace-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1922-1-ms63-ngc-ex-binion-collection-ngc-census-74512-99597-pcgs-population-60067-53593-mintage-51-737-000/a/1219-8326.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

As for the Redfield Hoard, yes there are toned examples, however I wouldnt call any of them Monsters... your coin was probably the nicest (26-S) I have seen. It might be the nicest toned Redfield of any date/mintmark. Its unfortunate what happened in that regard. I have a rainbow 24-S and Ive only seen 1-2 other toned Redfield examples for that year. Most are 26-S. I have never seen a toned Redfield 28-S.

 

I dont agree that finding a toned Binion or Redfield is easier than finding an non-Hoard example though. There are 73 Binion Peace $ on Ebay now, not a single one is nicely toned. There are 10 Redfield Peace $ only 1 has some rainbow effect to it and its probably as nice as you can find for a Redfield with the exception being your coin.

 

And I have never seen any Redfield Peace $ awarded a * for toning. If you have examples of such or even photos other's coins of such please share them. I would love to see it. To a certain extent they exceedingly rare in my opinion.

[RWB]

Off to the optometrist to have my myopia checked.....then to the speech therapist for an alliteration lesson, finally down to Congress for some fresh onomatopoeia in the Senate cafeteria.

[TonerGuy]

Off to the optometrist to have my myopia checked.....then to the speech therapist for an alliteration lesson, finally down to Congress for some fresh onomatopoeia in the Senate cafeteria.

 

That's a cute response but can you please answer the questions I posed ? You would know the answers better than anyone else... You are a published author on the series... There's no one that has researched the academics of Peace $ more than you.

 

Do you think 190,000,000 Peace $ still exist or do you believe that some found their way into smelters hands over the past 50 years during price spike of silver ?

 

Out of the 190,000,000 how many do you believe still exist today ? How many do you believe exist in MS condition ?

 

PCGS has graded 555,000 and NGC has graded 684,000 approx. for a total of 1,239,000 total coins... do you think that represents 1/10 1/100 or 1/150th of the total remaining Peace $ in existence ?

[BROADSTRUCK]

Sorry to say but 314 on the label or not it's formally part of the AT'd Leather Pouch Hoard as it has the same pebbled surfaces seen on all. The OP's obverse image really shows off the 314 pimpled surfaces well in the fields and on Miss Liberty. What you see are totally unnatural surface conditions as all the tiny bumps are chemical etching and not die related.

 

[TonerGuy]

Sorry to say but 314 on the label or not it's formally part of the AT'd Leather Pouch Hoard as it has the same pebbled surfaces seen on all. The OP's obverse image really shows off the 314 pimpled surfaces well in the fields and on Miss Liberty. What you see are totally unnatural surface conditions as all the tiny bumps are chemical etching and not die related.

 

 

Im not so concerned with AT vs NT. Its MA. If I worried about AT, NT debate I'd wouldnt collect toned coins.

 

Actually not all of them have the surface condition you describe... here's another one from the Leather Pouch Hoard without those surfaces... Interestingly enough it has a band of light purple across the reverse that might make it appear it was imparted from a strap...

 

[coinman_23885]

Sorry to say but 314 on the label or not it's formally part of the AT'd Leather Pouch Hoard...

 

I have heard this thrown around repeatedly, but I haven't actually been presented with any evidence other than speculation and unsubstantiated hearsay. Yes, I have seen a number of questionably toned Peace Dollars that begin with the 314 serial number, but surely, those serials numbers don't have a monopoly as I have seen plenty of others that were questionable in my opinion. I have also seen 314 dollars that look nothing like this coin and do not have the same colors/progression, and look quite natural to my eyes. I only conclude that there are AT and/or questionable Peace Dollars in TPG slabs, which is hardly news.