Augustus Saint Gaudens 1907 High Relief 1 1

[GoldFinger1969]

FYI.....AU 55's must be under $10K, since AU-58's are just above it (including bp).  CAC adds about 20% on average.

Buying opportunity, IMO.

Edited November 11, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

A correctly graded AU (58) will likely be just as satisfying as a MS-63 coin - a specimen from the late December production, without a fin, will usually look nicer than on of the fin examples. But, finding one that is correctly graded will be difficult.

[GoldFinger1969]

10 minutes ago, RWB said:

A correctly graded AU (58) will likely be just as satisfying as a MS-63 coin - a specimen from the late December production, without a fin, will usually look nicer than on of the fin examples. But, finding one that is correctly graded will be difficult.

Good point.....and BETTER than MS60-62's.  But yeah, you want a really nice-looking AU-58 (I've seen a few).  Or you can just ante up for one of the CAC coins.

Regrettably (price-wise), the decent-looking AU-58's -- like most coins at an inflection grade -- have been submitted for and received the CAC designation which raises the price.  I guess the good news is that the price is lower than the same coin with CAC 12 and 18 months ago, even though it raises the price on a straight-TPG graded coin without it.  

Saw an AU-55 CAC a few months ago, can't remember where.  I think it was GC.

Edited November 11, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

1907 HIGH RELIEF AUCTIONS:  FYI, a bunch of 1907 HR's are being sold next Friday November 20th by Heritage.

[GoldFinger1969]

I'm not sure if this is possible. (thread is 4 years old)...and I don't want to step on the OP's toes (it IS his thread)....but is it possible, and would it be better, if we dropped the word "Augustus" from the title subject ?

It's just that the coin is a Saint-Gaudens 1907 High Relief...no need for the "Augustus." 

If the OP is still around here, maybe he/she can change it or ask a Mod to do so.

Nothing critical, just kinda weird to keep seeing the word "Augustus."  

Edited November 12, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/11/2020 at 8:39 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

1907 HIGH RELIEF AUCTIONS:  FYI, a bunch of 1907 HR's are being sold next Friday November 20th by Heritage.

Just a reminder....

[comicdonna]

On 11/12/2020 at 11:30 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'm not sure if this is possible. (thread is 4 years old)...and I don't want to step on the OP's toes (it IS his thread)....but is it possible, and would it be better, if we dropped the word "Augustus" from the title subject ?

It's just that the coin is a Saint-Gaudens 1907 High Relief...no need for the "Augustus." 

If the OP is still around here, maybe he/she can change it or ask a Mod to do so.

Nothing critical, just kinda weird to keep seeing the word "Augustus."  

Content Count

3

 

Joined

April 26, 2015

 

Last Visited

May 1, 2015

[GoldFinger1969]

9 hours ago, comicdonna said:

Content Count  3  Joined  April 26, 2015   Last Visited  May 1, 2015

Yeah, I saw he hasn't been around much, let alone to this thread.  That's why I was hoping Dena or one of the Mods would change the Subject Title -- minor change, and he's not gonna mind.

Anyway, I re-freshed the thread because no need to keep creating new ones if old ones would encompass the stuff I/we want to post about. 

[MarkFeld]

24 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Yeah, I saw he hasn't been around much, let alone to this thread.  That's why I was hoping Dena or one of the Mods would change the Subject Title -- minor change, and he's not gonna mind.

Anyway, I re-freshed the thread because no need to keep creating new ones if old ones would encompass the stuff I/we want to post about. 

If you want to take issue with thread titles, there are plenty of better candidates than this one. As is, it lets people know quite well, what they need to. Just because someone doesn't like it, isn't a valid reason to have it changed.

Edited November 19, 2020 by MarkFeld

[Henri Charriere]

23 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

If you want to take issue with thread titles, there are plenty of better candidates than this one. As is, it lets people know quite well, what they need to. Just because someone doesn't like it, isn't a valid reason to have it changed.

Another way to put it is, How would you like someone colorizing your film intentionally shot in b&w?

[GoldFinger1969]

5 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

If you want to take issue with thread titles, there are plenty of better candidates than this one. As is, it lets people know quite well, what they need to. Just because someone doesn't like it, isn't a valid reason to have it changed.

I see where you are coming from, Mark....but all I thought was to drop the word "Augustus" from the title since the coins really never have his name in the description. That's all ! 

[GoldFinger1969]

4 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Another way to put it is, How would you like someone colorizing your film intentionally shot in b&w?

Hold your horses, Ted Turner ....I just figured the coin was properly called a Saint-Gaudens 1907 High Relief...I think the author of the OP was maybe not familiar with the terminology and hence added "Augustus" which I've never seen in reference to the coins, just to the scultpor himself.

Again, not a big thing just a stylistic minor cosmetic change.  Not colorizing....more like using an original 35 mm print to make a copy. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[MarkFeld]

12 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I see where you are coming from, Mark....but all I thought was to drop the word "Augustus" from the title since the coins really never have his name in the description. That's all ! 

Listen to yourself - all you thought was to drop the word “Augustus”. It’s not YOUR thread (title).

Edited November 20, 2020 by MarkFeld

[GoldFinger1969]

7 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

Listen to yourself - all you thought was to drop the word “Augustus”. It’s not YOUR thread (title).

I thought the change was akin to a spelling correction -- that's all.  I've never seen the Saint-Gaudens coins prefaced by "Augustus."  That's all !!

Also....the search function here has trouble finding relevant threads and "Augustus" seems to intefere with the key words "Saints" and "High Relief."

My intentions were good, I assure you....

Edited November 20, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[MarkFeld]

12 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I thought the change was akin to a spelling correction -- that's all.  I've never seen the Saint-Gaudens coins prefaced by "Augustus."  That's all !!

Please correct the below thread title of yours. The title to the book reads “Saint-Gaudens..”

Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book

 

And the one below, too. It doesn’t include a denomination, so it’s unclear what coin you’re asking about.

 

1798 Draped Bust -- legit value ?

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by MarkFeld

[comicdonna]

[GoldFinger1969]

Moving away from grammar and style ....an Augustus Saint-Gaudens 1907 High Relief was sold today by Heritage.....MS64 CAC Flat Rim.....$28,000 ($33,600 w/bp).

A bunch go on sale tomorrow.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

13 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Moving away from grammar and style ....an Augustus Saint-Gaudens 1907 High Relief was sold today by Heritage.....MS64 CAC Flat Rim.....$28,000 ($33,600 w/bp).

And an MS64 over at GC is for sale, too...no CAC.....should be interesting to see where the bunch tonight go for sale on HA.  The coins tonight are all rated MS62-65.

Edited November 20, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

12 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

The coins tonight are all rated MS62-65.

Is that miles per gallon....?

[GoldFinger1969]

4 hours ago, RWB said:

Is that miles per gallon....?

I don't know but as for coin grades....YMMV.....Your Mileage May Vary. 

6 High Reliefs go off tonight....FYI, the auction starts at 6:30 PM EDT but the HR's are about 180 items into the auction, so they'll probably go off about 7:15 PM or so.  I'd check in by 7 PM to play it safe if you want to see or participate in the bidding.

Edited November 20, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[MarkFeld]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

And an MS64 CAC over at GC is for sale, too...no CAC.....should be interesting to see where the bunch tonight go for sale on HA.  The coins tonight are all rated MS62-65.

You wrote both “CAC” and “no CAC”.

[GoldFinger1969]

3 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

You wrote both “CAC” and “no CAC”.

Corrected, thanks Mark ! 

Since you are here, does HA have any definitive plans for attending any shows in 2021 (assuming they go off) -- or is it in a state of flux ?  I think as of now, FUN is still on (though I am sure things can change weekly). 

[MarkFeld]

6 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Corrected, thanks Mark ! 

Since you are here, does HA have any definitive plans for attending any shows in 2021 (assuming they go off) -- or is it in a state of flux ?  I think as of now, FUN is still on (though I am sure things can change weekly). 

I’m speaking just for myself here - I don’t think anything about shows for next year is definitive. How could it be at this point?

[GoldFinger1969]

Just now, MarkFeld said:

I’m speaking just for myself here - I don’t think anything about shows for next year is definitive. How could it be at this point?

True....plus you can't have some shows since they are in states with lockdowns but Florida (FUN) is technically a go at this point.  I'm thinking the regional shows next year and maybe Summer FUN might be viable as the vaccines should hit critical mass by mid-2021.

I know it's a big undertaking with personnel and resources for HA and others to have a physical presence at the shows.  Could not believe the size of the HA presence at FUN earlier this year.  Glad I attended -- could be 2022 before I go again. 

[GoldFinger1969]

Speculation/Pondering On 1907 High Relief Quantity:  I know there was "great excitment" about the pending 1907 High Relief when it first came out. 

But....you compare supply and demand and something stands out.

You add up the government dignitaries (a few dozen to maybe 200 ?) who want/get the coin....add in a very small number of coin dealers and jewelers (100 or so, tops ?)....the general public including usual collectors and 1st-timers (1,000 ?  2,000 ?).....and it doesn't come anywhere close to the 12,367 High Reliefs that were minted.

We know that tellers and others grabbed them rather than circulate.  Not sure if they stayed in sub-Treasurys or whererer they went after coming off the mint presses.

Now...today we have about 1/2 of them certified/graded.  The other half, we don't know about.

Is it possible that with such excess supply of 1907 Saint HR's (if my numbers above are in the ballpark)..and with the price premium fading over time..... that many were simply used in circulation....got worn down...looked indistinguishable to the naked eye from a regular relief Saint-Gaudens so not "picked out" ....and then got melted in the 1930's ?

Maybe because Double Eagles didn't circulate much they got bagged in an "assorted" bag sent overseas or south of the boarder ?

Lots of 1907 Saint High Reliefs survive today in Mint State because lots of people knew they were special.  But thousands seem to be unaccounted for...I myself see VERY FEW 1907 HR's graded less than AU-50 (which is were circulated coins would be) up for sale, and Iook very closely at HA, GC, and Ebay (starting to look more at SB, too).

Gonna re-read the chapter on 1907 HR's in Roger's book and see if I forgot some pertinent information.  Also got what appears to be some original research from a coin dealer (not copy-and-paste stuff from other sources) on 1907 HR's and will scan and post it here or in the thread for Roger's Saints book.

Edited January 9, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

2 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Also got what appears to be some original research from a coin dealer (not copy-and-paste stuff from other sources) on 1907 HR's and will scan and post it here or in the thread for Roger's Saints book.

That would be interesting to see.

Public demand and interest was high in 1907, and almost all the coins were "distributed:" even if only to clerks who promptly resold them for $30-$35 each. They were, after all, a circulation issue. When interest waned, some coins went into circulation and worn pieces occasionally appear in dealer lists and auctions. That half the mintage exists is evidence of very wide interest and reluctance to sell. (See Renaissance of American Coinage 1909-1915 for details aboutf the small "Treasurer's Treasure" kept for VIP rewards.)

[GoldFinger1969]

1 hour ago, RWB said:

That would be interesting to see.

I'm not sure about you though given your level of knowledge....in fact, the information may have been supplanted by your book.  It's dated 2016 so at least I know he didn't copy anything from your book.   Anyway, I'll scan and highlight the key section(s)....it's just over 1 page, not very long by any stretch.  I recall the dealer had some super-high end coins at the local coin show I attended.

1 hour ago, RWB said:

Public demand and interest was high in 1907, and almost all the coins were "distributed:" even if only to clerks who promptly resold them for $30-$35 each. They were, after all, a circulation issue. When interest waned, some coins went into circulation and worn pieces occasionally appear in dealer lists and auctions. That half the mintage exists is evidence of very wide interest and reluctance to sell. (See Renaissance of American Coinage 1909-1915 for details aboutf the small "Treasurer's Treasure" kept for VIP rewards.)

Did they get that high in price, Roger ?  I thought $30 was the highest they got but maybe $35 was the first few days/weeks spike price.  I'm finishing up another book on DE's today and meant to re-hit yours tomorrow.

Thanks for the tip on the info in RoAC.  I intend to buy the books soon.  Friend offered to lend me his, but if I'm gonna read them, I want my own. 

[RWB]

The MCMVII price range was $25 to $35. Remember that buyers were not ordinary folks, they were people inside the sub-Treasury system and bankers - people who could afford a $35 souvenir. Within a couple of months the price declined to about $22.50 then to $21...or less. They remained at or near this price until the gold price advanced.

[GoldFinger1969]

23 minutes ago, RWB said:

The MCMVII price range was $25 to $35. Remember that buyers were not ordinary folks, they were people inside the sub-Treasury system and bankers - people who could afford a $35 souvenir. Within a couple of months the price declined to about $22.50 then to $21...or less. They remained at or near this price until the gold price advanced.

Wow, did they collapse that quickly ?  I thought it took until after WW I for the price to fall.  Bowers book had some auction prices for 1907 HR's.  Regardless of time frame or price, the early sizzle did turn into a fizzle.

[GoldFinger1969]

5 hours ago, RWB said:

The MCMVII price range was $25 to $35. Remember that buyers were not ordinary folks, they were people inside the sub-Treasury system and bankers - people who could afford a $35 souvenir. Within a couple of months the price declined to about $22.50 then to $21...or less. They remained at or near this price until the gold price advanced.

Good memory Roger.....Bowers' has some realized auction prices as high as $42 into early-1908.   Bulk probably in the $30's.  Price then fell as the novelty worn off....rose again during The Roaring Twenties....collapsed into 1932 to a 5% premium or so.