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HA Seller's Fee by Electric Peak Collection

15 posts in this topic

  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

Not 20%

 

A recent post that questioned the justification for a 17.5% buyer's fee at Heritage generated quite a few responses. Toward the end of the exchange it was claimed by the original poster that HA charges a 20% seller's fee as well as the 17.5% buyer's fee. Based on my own experience seven years ago, when they charged me a 5% seller's fee (except for coins for which I had no seller's fee coupons), I questioned the claim. Mark Feld of Heritage responded that they have never had a seller's fee that high for coins, but did not say anything more about past or current policy.

 

Rather than continue a pointless argument there in the chat boards, I decided to ask Heritage what the policy is. (I could not find it on their web site.) Bob Marino called me Thursday about my question. Here is the gist of what he told me:

1) Consignors can negotiate terms.

2) The largest seller's fee they charge is 10%. He said repeatedly that would be for "large, bulky" consignments.

3) The 5% I was charged (without negotiation, for a consignment of seven slabbed coins) was a reduced fee based on my status as a frequent buyer.

 

While writing this, I realized I could check my consignment form from seven years ago. I just got it out. It says: "For our services, you agree to pay us a Seller's Fee equal to five percent (5%) of the aggregate of all Hammer Prices realized from the auction of your Properties, except the Seller's Fee is 15% for currency; sets and partial sets; binder lots; rolls; misc.; and post-1950 Proof and Mint Sets; and 10% on medals and tokens."

 

So here at least we have a possibly out-of-date actual statement of terms, and a current verbal statement from the source. My comments on seller's fee in that chat boards thread were based on my own experience, but some folks were spreading hearsay that now appears to be false. All I can say is 1) "don't believe everything you read on the internet", and 2) please don't make allegations without checking your facts.

 

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With that being straight from paperwork it is still 22.5% of your total sales. That is quite a hefty loss when you can first try selling in Money Market and save that loss. There is also a limit on Heritage submissions. Bob Marino is great to work with but he does not fill in all the right answers.

 

If there is a $5000 limit to get into the good auctions ---- Use the Heritage price values and auction archives NOT NGC price values guide. Coins over $75 Heritage value wise are worthy and lower value coins go to their lower interest weekly auctions or dealer non pics sealed bid auctions.

 

The Heritage price guide only goes to MS65 ??? That makes it tough to figure any submissions on better grade submissions and leaves it up to the Heritage appraiser as to where your coins sell and if your say $7500 NGC value is even worthy of a bid listing. I sent in a load in December NGC worth $7500 for a minimum $5000 to enter in the Fun Show. Bob replied that I needed $1500 more ( their values) to make the show. I had him return the package and sold them in Money Market.

Later---Rick

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Rick,

 

Yeah, I recall wanting to sell in the 2008 FUN show, but only one of the seven went there. The other six were in a February 2008 auction (Long Beach?). The total realized was over $5000, but not by much. Some underperformed, some did better than I expected.

 

As for Heritage's weekly coin auctions (Sundays & Tuesdays), I like looking through them for decent yet "affordable" examples of varieties. Also, they do slip in a higher value coin from time to time.

 

Alan

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Folks,

 

Just for further info: Back in 2008, the buyer's fee was 15% (as stated in the consignment agreement just after the part I quoted). So we know at least the buyer's fee portion of the 2008 terms is now out-of-date. And Bob Marino was talking with me specifically about coins. I was at work when he called, and I did not have time to grill him for more details.The Heritage fee schedules are different for other materials.

 

Oh, and today, April 24, marks the 25th anniversary for the Hubble Space Telescope!

 

Alan

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Alan,

Yes, the 20% I quoted from an email was not for coins. It was for another area. I figure if the person whom received the email wished to come in and counter that HA does not charge a 20% Seller Fee on at least some items then they could, and would. But I am not going to either quote the email nor mention the persons name (who by the way is particularly active on this forum).

 

The fact that HA does not publish anywhere on their website (that you or I could find) an actual percentage it charges for the sellers fee forces one to rely on the experiences of not only you (your stated 5%) as well as that from others.

 

So we are right back to my original understanding that the sellers fee is based on who you are and what you have to sell. (This is of course hearsay from who else, you.)

 

I will point out one last thing;

 

but some folks were spreading hearsay that now appears to be false. All I can say is 1) "don't believe everything you read on the internet", and 2) please don't make allegations without checking your facts.

 

Then later you wrote

 

And Bob Marino was talking with me specifically about coins. I was at work when he called, and I did not have time to grill him for more details.The Heritage fee schedules are different for other materials.

Alan

 

 

 

I guess that could very well apply to you. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

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wdrob,

 

No, it doesn't apply to me. I never made an assertion that was either made up or second hand. I simply stated my own experience. I could have made it more detailed, perhaps. But I did not violate my advice.

 

Alan

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Alan,

Yes, the 20% I quoted from an email was not for coins. It was for another area. I figure if the person whom received the email wished to come in and counter that HA does not charge a 20% Seller Fee on at least some items then they could, and would. But I am not going to either quote the email nor mention the persons name (who by the way is particularly active on this forum).

Here is the text of a PM I sent to wdrob:

"I didn't want to post this in your Journal as it is not coin related, but does convey my experience with the auction house in Dallas and I thought you'd get a kick out of it. . . . Book Huntin' on the Bayou "

 

and this is a direct quote from an e-mail I received from the auction house:

"we would propose to estimate the directory at $1000-1500, and open the bidding at $500. If it sells, the only cost to you is a flat 20% of the hammer price. " (read the Book Huntin' link above for the rest of the story)

 

I myself have been unable to come up with a published schedule of Seller's Fees and perhaps wdrob is exactly correct in stating

So we are right back to my original understanding that the sellers fee is based on who you are and what you have to sell.

Everything you need to know about consigning to an auction. really doesn't tell you everything. A widget guy like me could have been had for 20% whereas a big time Mr. Whale probably paid 0% and could have even taken home a small portion of the buyer's fee for themselves as well.

 

 

FWIW here are the published Buyer’s Premiums:

 

2. All bids are subject to a Buyer’s Premium which is in addition to the placed successful bid:

• Fifteen percent (15%) [ :( ] on Domain Names & Intellectual Property Auction lots;

• Seventeen and one-half percent (17.5%) [ :P ] on Currency, US Coin, and World & Ancient Coin Auction

lots, except for Gallery Auction lots as noted below;

• Nineteen and one-half percent (19.5%) [ :eek: ] on Comic, Movie Poster, Sports Collectibles, and Gallery

Auction (sealed bid auctions of mostly bulk numismatic material) lots;

• Twenty-two percent (22%) [ :o ] on Wine Auction lots;

• For lots in all other categories not listed above, the Buyer’s Premium per lot is twenty-five percent

(25%) [ :insane: ] on the first $100,000 (minimum $14), plus twenty percent (20%) of any amount between

$100,000 and $1,000,000, plus twelve percent (12%) of any amount over $1,000,000.

Terms and Conditions (opens a PDF file)

 

 

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• For lots in all other categories not listed above, the Buyer’s Premium per lot is twenty-five percent

(25%) [ :insane: ] on the first $100,000 (minimum $14), plus twenty percent (20%) of any amount between $100,000 and $1,000,000, plus twelve percent (12%) of any amount over $1,000,000.

 

Doug I apologize, but do appreciate that you felt compelled to comment. I was quickly tiring of Alan continuing to consider my assertion as "made up" or that I was "spreading hearsay that now appears to be false".

 

I must admit that I was wrong when I said a total of nearly 40% -- If I am reading that structure correctly, your book would have carried a buyers premium of 25% which along with the 20% sellers fee they quoted to you would have been 45%. :eek:

 

 

 

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Looks like Doug and Bill have it nailed in pricing. Any way you look at it that is a high price cost to be in a nice show for viewing. I do enjoy the relations and friendships from sales and trades in this club. Better than the loss at a auction house that I know nothing of the final outcome till the show is over.

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Quick Question:

 

I see so many registry coins that go up on ebay. I know a lot of them have outrageous BIN prices and then a make offer and was told (this could be considered hearsay as well, but we all know this is true) by more than one dealer most bigger deals are made offline that results in cutting ebay (or any auction house) out of the equation. I myself have made offline purchases from the big dealers on high end coins and have never personally had a bad experience.

 

That being said, what does any of the auction houses offer that ebay doesn't other than a layer of security for the money? Why pay a buyer OR seller premium when you don't have to?

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While the numbers presented may seem disappointing at first blush, let me ask some questions...

 

Are these numbers typical for the industry and the type of items?

 

How do these numbers compare to a straight retail consignment of comparable material?

 

How do these numbers compare to the cost, effort and time of a DIY listing?

 

I'm a buyer, not a seller, so I've no real-world idea what it takes to sell a book or Internet domain or pretty much anything else.

 

EVP

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Quick Question:

 

I myself have made offline purchases from the big dealers on high end coins and have never personally had a bad experience.

 

That being said, what does any of the auction houses offer that ebay doesn't other than a layer of security for the money? Why pay a buyer OR seller premium when you don't have to?

 

ANSWER:

Higher bidding costs!! :grin:

 

SOLUTION:

Establishing a relationship with a dealer that sells the type coins you collect would by far beat even e-bay prices with the best insured security that you expect from HA and less waiting on shipping!! :)

 

Rick

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Rick, et al.,

 

As this is a coin-oriented area, I was commenting only on coins. I never wrote anything specific about other items with which HA deals. The bottom line is that HA charges 10% (max) seller's fee and 17.5% buyer's fee for coins. I was reacting to the assertion that HA charges 20% seller's fee. In context, though not necessarily explicitly, that assertion was applied to coins - It was paired with the 17.5% buyer's fee which applies only to (most) coins and currency (according to the HA doc cited by dadams). The source of that 20% seller's fee number was apparently not about coins, but was misapplied in a coin discussion.

 

In all of this I am not trying to defend or promote HA. The next time I decide to sell, I will certainly be looking at the options. I just thought the 20% + 17.5% claim sounded wrong, and challenged it. It proved to be wrong. And I'm sorry if I tried wdrob's patience, but I was interested in the truth being made clear. End of discussion, as it applies to coins?

 

Alan

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And I'm sorry if I tried wdrob's patience, but I was interested in the truth being made clear. End of discussion, as it applies to coins?

 

Alan

 

Alan, we are fine. I can get over it and your position is fair.

 

I have learned a considerable amount through these threads and that is what I was seeking, a better understanding, which every participant helped me find.

 

 

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Rick, I don't even closely agree with you on a higher annual cost. Not even remotely close. I have forged good relationships with some dealers on ebay and ALWAYS get a price that I am comfortable with and it surely isn't book. These are bigger dealers that are always at shows. They routinely put their coins on ebay to generate interest and get offers but don't complete the transaction through them.

 

Auction houses can be VERY overrated.

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