I would appreciate any help in researching a coin

[wdrob]

 

How would I obtain access to a copy of the October 9, 1995 issue of Coin World. I am not a member (if they have members) and I noticed the archives only seemed to go back to 2010 (for me). There is an article in that issue on the 1883-O Branch Mint Proof and I believe it may have some diagnostics info in the article.

 

Also there is the possibility that someone may have a copy of Wayne Miller's "Morgan and Peace Dollar Textbook" 1982

 

In that book I believe there is a full color (and possibly large enough to prove useful) photo of a 1883-O BMP and I think the very same one that W. Breen had determined was one of the 12. I was hoping that book may have expanded diagnostics for the very same coin.

 

 

 

 

[thebeav]

I've got a Wayne Miller at home. I won't be home until 9 or 10 tonight, but I can look then....

Paul

[wdrob]

 

Thank you. That would be extremely helpful to me.

 

 

 

[coinman_23885]

If you are a member of the ANA, contact them and see if you could borrow a copy from the ANA's library. This can be accomplished by mail (or at least that is my understanding).

[brg5658]

If you are a member of the ANA, contact them and see if you could borrow a copy from the ANA's library. This can be accomplished by mail (or at least that is my understanding).

 

I think periodicals (magazines) are non-circulating. I believe the ANA can scan specific pages, but last time I borrowed from the ANA library, they will only ship you certain books -- not periodicals.

 

Just an FYI, you pay postage both ways for books, and on scanned items I believe it's $1 per page to have them scanned into a PDF file and emailed to you.

 

Still totally worth it if you are looking for a hard to find item. I will also say, the personnel at the ANA library are extremely nice people, and very quick with turnaround. (thumbs u

[wdrob]

 

Thanks for those pointers. I think there is the actual book for sale over in the money marketplace. I had sent an email about it once before but never got a response and was tired of waiting so I talked myself out of buying it from him.

 

Wish I hadn't now.

 

 

[thebeav]

Here's the photo from Miller....Hope it helps....

[wdrob]

Thank you for that.

 

In the time since I posted that, and you had offered, Kenny had provided the link to the HA coin I was looking for and that is one of those high res photos.

 

Interestingly though, I think there are two entirely different coins and both are being labeled as a BMP.

 

Thanks again for that photo in the book. Maybe that guy selling books will answer this time and I can buy that one he has for sale in the MM.

[mtnstyne]

Bill, this may sound crazy but Wayne Miller has a shop down the road from me here in Montana. If you have a specific question you want asked I could stop in sometime in the Future. I will actually be in that town tomorrow for work, probably won't have time to stop then but I get there frequently.

 

[wdrob]

 

Hmmmm.

 

That is a generous offer. I think all I would do if I had him in front of me right now is ask him to look at This Page and help me reconcile his previous description of a 1883-O BMP with the coin example shown there.

 

I would be interested to know how the 4 diagnostics criteria listed (by him I believe) fits in the further characterization given by him:

 

The 1883-O is one of only four issues that Wayne Miller classifies as Type One branch mint proofs, i.e., an authorized and definite issue.

 

The only other BMP that is considered definitive (one that does look like a proof) does not meet the above diagnostics from the photo at Heritage Auctions listed here.

 

I could always email him.

 

Yeah, just hold off and I will email him in the next few days and get his opinion if he is willing.

 

Thank you -- I will keep you on stand by.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RWB]

In the image, almost everything beyond the first sentence is BS.

[wdrob]

 

In the image, almost everything beyond the first sentence is BS.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

How much do you know about New Orleans BMP's in the year 1883 Roger?

 

Is my theory even close in thinking that although the piece I have exhibits the diagnostic criteria that was written for what was presumed to be BMP's (and subsequently labeled as such and sold the same), are they actually just DMPL or even PL dollars which were struck using the very same dies used to strike the 12 reported proofs?

 

Or was there even 12 proofs minted in New Orleans in 1883?

 

 

[RWB]

New Orleans Mint did not have the equipment required to make a proof coin.

 

If they are real proofs, then they were made in Philadelphia.

If they are not proofs, then they are locally-made proof-like pieces which could occur as part of normal operations - no special event or reason needed.

 

There is nothing about this in the Tulane Univ archives. Breen gives no sources, neither does Miller.

 

Without documentation and high quality images of all three sides, the assertion of them being proofs is BS.

[wdrob]

 

I was aware that you had mentioned that CC did not have the type of press needed to strike a true proof, as I was following that other thread. I just assumed that since you didn't mention New Orleans (that I can remember) they may have very well had a screw type press.

 

Well the plot thickens.

 

There are some very good High Res photos here at a HA auction of one that is definitely a very nicely struck coin, however I believe it is lacking in a few areas so possibly someone paid $270,250.00 in 2013 for a DMPL of the highest caliber.

 

What gets me is that they keep referencing apparent false information in order to sell a coin for the highest dollar. An example here would be the reference they make, not only in the write up but a guy on video as well, that the coins lower left leafs on the second cluster are separated and seem to float.

 

But that coin does not!

 

It was apparently on the later strikes (with the same die pair) and after extensive polishing (rough polishing I might add -- no flour emery used here for sure).

 

I think I have had a good lesson on how one writer can document fallacious events which continue to be repeated and repeated until no one questions it.

 

So miller writes "most people were not aware of this coin until Breen's excellent work.", and the whole time Wally was downing a fifth of scotch just making things up as he went?

 

 

[wdrob]

New Orleans Mint did not have the equipment required to make a proof coin.

 

If they are real proofs, then they were made in Philadelphia.

If they are not proofs, then they are locally-made proof-like pieces which could occur as part of normal operations - no special event or reason needed.

 

There is nothing about this in the Tulane Univ archives. Breen gives no sources, neither does Miller.

 

Without documentation and high quality images of all three sides, the assertion of them being proofs is BS.

 

OK. I have went back and read the New Orleans portion of the branch mints and based upon a quote in an earlier post (in another section) you stated:

 

I have not seen the coin. However, the Carson City Mint did not have a large screw press which is what was required to make proof dollars in 1885. A normal toggle press of the Ulhorn-type does not deliver the same kind of blow to the planchet as the medal press. This does not mean the coin is not a real proof -- only that it was made in Philadelphia.

 

 

Now, according to your book, New Orleans did in fact have a screw press and one that was upgraded for the extra pressure needed for nickel.

 

Please explain this if it is in fact a contradiction.

 

thanks