Just back from Ivey-Selkirk auction - what a RARE LEARNING experience!

[James_OldeTowne]

I don't know where to begin! First of all, Ivey-Selkirk is a well-known auctioneer of mostly estate type items - antique furniture, high-priced paintings, sculptures, etc. Once in a while they get coins, and this past weekend, I attended a coin auction of the John Powers collection.

 

Ivey Selkirk website

 

"James Powers" collection

 

The cool thing about this collection is that it was truly an old-time collection, untouched for the better part of a century and totally guaranteed unmolested. When it came to Ivey-Selkirk, EVERY SINGLE COIN was housed in paper 2x2 envelopes. This is both good news and bad! The bad news is that EVERY SINGLE NICKEL in his complete Proof run from 1867 - 1912, as well as EVERY SINGLE unc had become heavily carbon spotted, so they had to send the entire proof run to NCS for conservation and subsequent encapsulation. The problem is that the coins all now look like the typical NCS result - blast-white chrome color with evidence of carbon spotting still showing. I had NO interest whatsoever in these coins, though most were designated "cameo" - a pretty amazing achievement. The only nickel I bought was the 1912-D, also NCS curated and graded MS-64, but I already had a customer for it.

 

Each coin in the essentially complete Buffalo collection, including the three-legged, was also NCS curated, but apparently, these coins did not suffer as much, because although ALL of them were 100% blast-white, less evidence of the carbon spotting was left behind. I did not buy any of these.

 

As far as the nickels are concerned, the NCS process resulted in some ugly coins in my opinion.

 

Finally, EVERY Indian head cent in his complete run, INCLUDING the 1856 (PR-63) and 1877 (PR-63 RB), were NCS curated. However, the amazing thing is that not some, not most, but ALL of the IHCs had the most amazing and consistent toning I've ever seen. Every coin had basically RB surfaces (maybe 10% were BNs), but they all had pleasing magenta toning on their obverses, and royal blue reverses, with some intermingling of other iridescent colors. I can't imagine how NCS managed to curate these coins, yet maintain the phenomenal toning they all displayed. I bought two of these coins, since I wanted bona-fide, certified examples of original paper-envelope toning.

 

KUDOS to NCS on the small-cents. They did an unbelievable job, and resulted in some of the most gorgeous IHC proofs I've seen.

 

The WORST news of all is that a bunch of the later date silver coins were in PVC holders, and there are a bunch of bright-green coins that I will be curating myself right away. I'll be posting more on this issue later.

 

Here's the point I have been pondering: Coins that had laid around for 65 years without being looked at, much less molested, no longer exist, for all intents and purposes. Whether NCS curating the coins was good or bad, who's to say. I'd say that overall, the curation was necessary, because the nickels were obviously pretty bad. But some part of the history of this collection is now gone forever, and I think that's very unfortunate.

 

But here's the good news. There were a couple of lots of coins still in their original 2x2 paper envelopes that Ivey-Selkirk deemed too low in value to sell singly, much less send to NCS. I was fortunate enough to buy these lots. My oh my, what a fantastic addition to my collection!!!! It's not that these coins are spectacular rarities, or ultra-grade coins, but what's important to me is that I now have an irrefutable reference of what totally original coins look like. A few of the UNC coins were wrapped in cellophane and then placed in the envelopes, so they have maintained absolutely pristine surface quality. For example, some Washington quarters from the 1940s are absolutely 100% blast white, and if you didn't know better, you'd think they might have been dipped. Some of the wheat cents are bright, bright red, and I picked up nearly a complete set (through 1967) of Roosevelt dimes in absolutely pristine condition. WOW! It is very obvious that this collection was put together at a time before cleaning coins was in vogue, because I could not find a single coin that one would consider "Cleaned".

 

The most sensational addition to my collection, and the only expensive item I was able to afford, is a complete collection of Texas commemorative halves. These coins are absoluetely unbeleivable, 100% untoned, original and unquestionably MS-66 or better. I am blown away by the total lack of abrasions, hairlines, or contact marks that the coins show - the result of careful storage in cellophane.

 

As I get time to photograph some of the coins and put down my thoughts, I'll keep you guys posted. Right now, I'm just too excited about my acquisition to really write coherently!

 

James

[cpm9ball]

James, I can't wait to see the pictures. I'm almost as excited as you sound.

 

Chris

[chinook]

Sounds like you had a great time. I cant wait to see some of the pics.

[Hoot]

Sounds really exciting, James. Interesting how the copper-nickel and copper pieces took it in the shorts being stored in paper while the silver did fine.

 

Hoot

[Oldtrader3]

I would have thought that the IHC's would be in worse shape than the nickels. What a find though! It is not often that you see, firsthand, a collection that has not been touched in that long a period.

[James_OldeTowne]

Actually, not all of the silver fared well. Curiously, the circulated coins did much worse than the UNCS! I took some images of the mercury dimes (circ), and some of them are absolutely jet-black! They aren't corroded, though they appear that way at first glance, just completely toned from the sulphur in the paper.

 

I don't have a good explanation on the copper, other than to guess that the NCS process is more acceptable on copper than it is on nickel. The problem with the nickels is that the carbon spots seem to have left tiny spots of etched metal, and frankly, I'm surprised that none, not even one of the nickels got body-bagged. I believe that one of the cents was body-bagged, since it was not slabbed. My guess is it got nailed with "questionable toning".

 

By the way, there was exactly one coin in an NCS holder, a 1942/1 Mercury dime with "AU details, cleaned" designated. The bizarre thing is, the coin looked absolutely original to me, though again, with weird coloration due to the paper envelope storage.

 

James

[Leothelion]

The problem is that the coins all now look like the typical NCS result - blast-white chrome color with evidence of carbon spotting still showing.

 

My suspicions want to say that not all coins were sent to NCS, that someone tinkered with those coins that has less then desired results because it doesn't make sense why NCS would subject each coin after another with poor repeated results.

But as you suggested, they all had that typical NCS result . Obviously the coins must of been in much needed restoration. I imagine the proof surfaces had that etching look about them if they were soaked in a MS70 solution.

It would also be intersting to know if they have used the ultrasonic method to remove the c-spots, the success of it, if they use that method at all.

 

Leo

[spy88]

...some Washington quarters from the 1940s are absolutely 100% blast white, and if you didn't know better, you'd think they might have been dipped.

 

James, might this be a problem when comes time to slab? Might they think they were cleaned and BB them?

 

But congrats are still in order! Not many of us will ever have this sort of experience within our hobby. Thrilled for you and looking forward to the pics!

[michael]

[BOILER78]

James

Were there many nationally recognized dealers in attendance? Were the prices inline with what you would expect from a typical coin show Heritage auction?

 

I have attended several local "estate" sale auctions where the auctioneer is more accustomed to auctioning off furniture and farm equipment. I am amazed at the results.

Typically coins worth 10-20 dollars will bring 2-3 times what they can be purchased for at the local coin store and the occasional rare coin worth say 500 or more won't get any real action.

 

These sales rarely have actual rare coins and the grading is always atrocious but every now and then.....

[James_OldeTowne]

(((Were there many nationally recognized dealers in attendance?)))

 

There were only two major dealers that I knew for sure, and one younger fellow in back of the room put in some pretty stiff bids on the high-powered coins, so I suspect he was representing a third national dealer. Several local dealers were in attendance as well, but as you'd expect, they were rather low-powered. I won't name the national dealers out of respect for their business privacy, but one was from Missouri, and one from New York.

 

((( Were the prices inline with what you would expect from a typical coin show Heritage auction?)))

 

The really scarce coins (1856 Flying Eagle Proof, 1877 IHC, 1909-S IHC, 1912-S Liberty Nickel, etc) went for slightly less than I would have expected. Granted, they were ALL NCS-curated, but were I rich, I'd have bought those coins for sure, at only a few bucks above sheet. The common stuff went for WAAAAAYYY too much, as is typical of this kind of auction. I have been convinced for a long time that if you really want to unload a bulk amount of generic stuff, this kind of auction blows away Heritage, since it usually ends up above full retail. We're talking common-date circulated Morgans going for $25 apiece! Rolls of circ-mercs selling for $50 a roll! You just can't make that kind of money at Heritage.

 

((( I have attended several local "estate" sale auctions where the auctioneer is more accustomed to auctioning off furniture and farm eq uipment. I am amazed at the results. Typically coins worth 10-20 dollars will bring 2-3 times what they can be purchased for at the local coin store and the occasional rare coin worth say 500 or more won't get any real action. )))

 

That's just about right for this auction too!

 

I will post images in a new thread!

 

James

[HaydenTubbs]

Wow!I wish there was this kind of excitement in my area.Congrats on your purchases!

[DirtyGoldMan]

James,

 

I had every intention of attending the auction, but a sick child at home precluded it. I live about a mile from Ivey-Selkirk. I am sorry I missed it.

 

Robert

[michael]

james i cant seem to open the file i need to view youyr article on pvc coins can you somehow post it on your site so i can just see it by goint to your site?

i want to read and see your article and photos and your other articles too

 

best

 

michael

[James_OldeTowne]

Michael, PM sent!