Is the grading system changing based on eye appeal?

[Nutmeg Coin]

I have seen so many absurdly toned silver dollars it is unreal, and there is literally no limit to source on these you could fill a tractor trailer up with silver dollars at a major show. Years ago when I first saw the phenomenon of brightly toned dollars making the owners of North Country coins in Plymouth, NH, wealthy, showing me the product they were selling on ebay I was really surprised. No toning is worth multiples of common coin price, whether real or unreal, whether certified or uncertified. I see real beautiful toning on certified coins every week with small premiums attached. And I doubt any aesthetic studies shows that stuff is worth whatever the buyers will pay for it. The Thomas Kinkade "painter of light" is a perfect example of terrible, awful, nauseating aesthetic taste that passes as acceptable and even "pretty". No serious art critic buys that argument. And in a healthy art market Kinkade's works would trade for no more than $500 based on quality level and the cost of production, not some abstract surrealistic concept of "value".

 

Attractive toning may be worth a premium, but not multiples of "common" coin value.

[coinman_23885]

Attractive toning may be worth a premium, but not multiples of "common" coin value.

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the market appears to disagree. And we are talking about sustained trends now and a decent sample size. It isn't one isolated instance of two collectors engaged in a bidding war.

[jom]

Attractive toning may be worth a premium, but not multiples of "common" coin value.

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the market appears to disagree. And we are talking about sustained trends now and a decent sample size. It isn't one isolated instance of two collectors engaged in a bidding war.

 

Exactly. However, Nutmeg is correct...the coins are not worth a "multiple" premium but what he failed to state was that this premium was not worth it TO HIMSELF. Other people seem to have a different opinion. Neither is wrong or right....everyone has their own value they'd pay. Some of these values are crazy to some but "just what the doctor ordered" for others.

 

The hard part is to figure how much. There are no "gray sheets" to help with this kind of thing....

 

jom

[TonerGuy]

 

I'm not talking about a few AT coins that slipped past the graders of NGC or PCGS. I am talking about a flood of new toned coins that significantly affects the populations because the AT is completely indistinguishable from the NT resulting in almost every coin being deemed MA. The number of people skilled enough to replicate natural toning and get it past the TPGs is very small. If their techniques become widespread, watch out!

 

Im not talking about a few AT coins slipping by either but then again it will depend on series. Do I think there is a plethora of AT ASEs in PCGS plastic - yes - but they still sell and they sell for up to $500. It got so bad at one point that NCG refused to grade toned ASEs. Im not sure if they are back to grading them but they did flood the market with little to no impact. There are numerous AT Ikes and JFKs in PCGS and NGC plastic. More then a few maybe, maybe not - but noticeable enough to those that specialize it them.

 

And then we have the "hoard" toners of several different series all with fascinating stories, those coins still sell at many multiples despite the persistent rumors of AT. All of those coins have been deemed MA and are even receiving CAC green beans.

 

I think if you collect toners, AT coins are just a risk you have to be willing to take and not lose sleep over - because if you do - you probably shouldnt collect toned coins or at least have a lot of Mylanta in your medicine cabinet.

[Afterword]

I suspect that if the number of wildly toned coins suddenly and substantially rose, it would not go unnoticed. The two major TPGs would keep any inundation of artificially toned coins in check.

 

They could raise or lower the flood gate at their discretion. All they would need to do is print a few words on labels. They do this to a lesser extent now.

 

TPGs exist to officiate and regulate. They would dictate, as they do at present, what is market acceptable, and how many, and what is not.

 

Not much, for the buyers of slabs at least, would change. They would look at the coin in the slab and wonder if it was artificially toned or naturally toned.

 

Then they would look at the label and, because there is no other viable choice, accept what it says.

 

Just as they do now.

 

 

[MJ]

Outside of ASE's I actually see less of monster toned coins on the bourse…. some major shows just a handful. I actively pursue them.

 

MJ

[jom]

The idea of a lot of AT coins getting through the TPGs has been scuttlebutt for years. Bob Campbell (sp?) from Utah gave a lecture on this in 1994 or 1995 at a Spring ANA (I think it was in Detroit). He showed coins IN SLABS at his presentation and evidently made some people upset. He apparently received death threats at some point. He was also interviewed by Maurice Rosen (sp?) for his newsletter. Bob continued his lectures though...I think I have DVD of one somewhere. Some of the coins he showed I would have NEVER known they were "AT" at all...they just looked "right" if you know what I mean. Then again, there always that change Bob could be wrong for many of the coins. Who knows?

 

All I know is this was TWENTY years ago so it is nothing new....

 

jom