A Tail of Two Quarters

[RGT]

Here are two 1853 A&R quarters, both graded recently by NGC. The first quarter I submitted to NGC last fall.

 

 

The second one was submitted a couple of months ago and I just got it back. In the picture, the spot touching the base on the left side is actually a bubble in the slab plastic. I guess the quality of the plastic continues to slip.

 

 

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to guess what grades NGC gave these coins. Feel free to comment on these coins as you may see fit. I will reveal the grades and make my comments after a few people have had the chance to reply.

[melmcbee]

Oh please let me play. This will be my first attempt. I have my Photograde book out and my Collecting for Dummies. At least it will give all of you experts a laugh,

The first one has good features on the shield but I cant see more than a couple of letters in Liberty. However there is more than a few feathers on the reverse. F-12 And I can make out many of the folds on her gown. Im still stuck on the word Liberty so I will stick to VF-20

 

The second is a beauty. I can make out more of the letters and even her eye detail. Full shield on reverse with little or no rub on feathers. AU-50. It looks shinier can these be proof or proof like? Ok you can laugh now but remember it was my first attempt .

[Hoot]

I won't guess the grades, as I'm usually wrong! Oh well, that does not prevent me from enjoying the post - excellent coins and one of my favorite reverses. I always think it looks like the eagle has just appeared as some mystical apparition!

 

Hoot

[cpm9ball]

Hey, Mel! I like your enthusiasm. Don't let anyone deter you, and remember this......"Anyone who claims that they have never made a mistake has never really tried."

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

I'm not going to guess grades, but in terms of wear alone, the second coin appears visibly superior to the first by five to seven points!

 

James

[RGT]

Hey, Mel! I like your enthusiasm. Don't let anyone deter you, and remember this......"Anyone who claims that they have never made a mistake has never really tried."

 

Chris

 

Yet you and Hoot are afraid to try?

 

James, I appreciate you not giving an answer since I already told you the grades.

 

BTW, I bought the second coin from James.

[gpnyc]

OK. I'll play along here.

 

Real grades:

XF-45

AU-58

 

Market grades:

AU-50

MS-62

 

I wonder which ones NGC went with on these. I suspect the real grades.

[cpm9ball]

Now see! There I go again making another mistake. Grading is not my area of expertise, nor is it an area that I want to explore. After reading all the comments about grading on all of the boards, I've come to the conclusion that there is no conclusion. I'll side with Hoot and just enjoy reading the posts.

 

Chris

[chinook]

Since nobody else wants to guess, I'll throw my hat in the ring.

 

#1. XF-40

#2. AU-55

[truthteller]

XF 40

 

AU 58

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[beartracks42-migration]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will guess that coin #1 is graded AU50 and #2 is MS62.

[Bruceswar]

1st vf 35 and 2nd au 58

[sadysta1]

AU50 - both

[Merc]

#1 Vf35

#2 AU55

[EZ_E]

1st vf 35 and 2nd au 58

 

Ditto.

[HaydenTubbs]

I'll take a shot:

XF-40

AU-53

[RGT]

Thanks to all who replied, even if you didn't take a shot at the grades.

 

I didn't just post these to give everyone some grading practice, though most of us could use it. Like I said, these were both recently graded by NGC, about two months apart.

 

The first one I bought a few years ago as a VF35. It stayed raw in my collection for a long time but I decided it should grade EF40 so I sent it in to see. The second one I bought from James on ebay. He noted that his client claimed it came from an ANACS AU53 holder. I thought it was an AU also and expected NGC to give it an AU50 or better.

 

Both coins came back from NGC graded EF45.

 

I really don't think the first one deserves the 45 grade but I think the second one should have gone 50 at least. I'd gladly move five points from one to the other.

 

I've always considered NGC to be fairly consistent, but I have no clue what's going on here. I have a few more coins I've been thinking of sending in but I'll be holding off on that. Maybe it's a fluke. Maybe one of the graders is giving up smoking.

 

When I picked it up from the dealer who sent it in for me he showed me some Walking Liberty Halves he had in the same invoice. He had expected mostly 64s and a few 65s. He got 65s and several 66s. I looked at the coins and feel they were more in line with 64-65. Maybe they gave him a gift after screwing up the grade on this quarter.

 

Anyone else seeing this kind of inconsistency lately? Any graders reading this forum want to clue us in? Was my coin graded by the janitor while everyone else was at FUN?

[EZ_E]

Is NGC or what?! They certainly have been losing favor in my eyes recently.

[CarolinaCollector]

I'll guess:

 

1) XF-40

2) AU-50

[James_OldeTowne]

Randy, THANKS for posting this thread. Your images are fantastic! I found the grading guesses to be extremely fascinating, and pretty well in line with what you and I discussed previously.

 

In all fairness, it should be mentioned that the second coin, which most of us (myself included) thought to be AU, has a couple of very faint hairlines in the left obverse field, but to me, they are not out of character for a low-end AU coin, and you have to be looking for them. The top coin is pleasingly original, but in my opinion, the flatness of the eagle's feather detail, as well as a complete lack of apparent cartwheel luster, should bar the coin from an EF-45 or higher grade.

 

On a side note, it also bears mentioning that the second coin displays classic symptoms of a retained cud forming on the left side of the obverse (above UNIT). In terminal die-states, the entire chunk of die, as outlined by the die cracks, would have fallen away, resulting in a spectacular cud. I have seen this coin in that terminal die-state. The obverse of the first coin shows similar characteristics below the right arrow at the date, but I have never seen the coin in the terminal die-state with a complete obverse cud.

 

In some respects, the die-cracks and retained cud add value that goes beyond the "grade", which is something Randy and I had also discussed.

 

James

[Hoot]

Wild and crazy. I can imagine the top coin being XF45 if seen in-person and some of the luster is intact. The bottom coin I still think is AU but, again, in-person this judgement might be modified by other conditions of the coin that are not visible on a scan or photo. NGC and PCGS will both effectively net grade coins from this time period (and before) that have not been harshly cleaned but some mild indication of cleaning/wiping exists. Perhaps that's the case and it shows only under the right lighting conditions? Nonetheless, an informative post - thanks.

 

Hoot

[TomB]

I came to my grades before I read your post, so here is what I guessed-

 

1)EF40

2)AU55

 

The fact that the two coins grade the same is just another reason why the grade on a slab should be taken as an opinion and that all folks who buy coins should know how to grade for themselves. Good thread!

[HaydenTubbs]

...It stayed raw in my collection for a long time but I decided it should grade EF40 so I sent it in to see...

The second one I bought from James on ebay. He noted that his client claimed it came from an ANACS AU53 holder.

I said XF-40,and AU-53.

I guess I was almost there

[James_OldeTowne]

Hayden, actually, your guesses were exactly what I would have guessed on these coins without prior knowledge.

 

This was a fantastic thread - thanks to all!

 

James

[HaydenTubbs]

Hayden, actually, your guesses were exactly what I would have guessed on these coins without prior knowledge.

 

This was a fantastic thread - thanks to all!

 

James

Yes, I'm quite suprised at NGC's grades.

[RGT]

I was a bit surprised myself, both times when I got each coin back.

 

As James said, the second coin has some minor obverse surface issues that I was a bit concerned about, but I never really expected the EF45 grade. And as Hoot suggested, they could have net graded the coin due to these minor hairlines.

 

The first coin really has no luster left on it while the second one easily has enough to be considered AU (in my opinion).

 

I suspect that if I tried to sell these coins sight-seen I would have trouble getting EF45 money for the first one and get a nice premium for the second.

[shanonmore]

AWWWW, You don't give an answer and I'm way too inexperienced to guess! I definately can see that the second is the better detailed/looking of the two. Wait, there are more posts...I will learn to use this board eventually! Loving my siggy....thanks to the person who helped me, you know who you are Those are two out of three, the other one is a teenager so I won't put her in a cheerleading outfit on the boards