Ankur is at it again..........

[GoldFinger1969]

The same coin should not sell for five figures more because of a plastic holder and sticker. The quality of the coin should be the controlling/important consideration. To be honest, it makes me worry about the long term stability of the coin market.

As a financial professional I disagree and here's why.

 

It's clear -- and I agree it's more style/preference than substance -- that PCGS is more preferred than NGC. So PCGS sells for a premium, all else equal. It's no different than technical analysis (TA) being very important in the currency market (it dominates here relative to all other asset classes) mostly because the short-term nature of currency trading and the size gives added weight to TA because everybody is following the same thing.

 

In other words, TA matters because folks THINK it SHOULD matter.

 

Same thing, at the margin IMO, with PCGS vs. NGC.

 

As for the CAC sticker...again not an expert and new to this whole debate but I look at it as a CONFIRMATION of the existing grade. So it's like the coin has been checked/graded twice. No different than if I had an experienced grader like Mark Feld vouch for a coin -- slabbed or unslabbed -- and agree that a dealer's or TPGs rating was in the ballpark (and maybe even low).

 

I think this entire debate, at the margin, is really splitting hairs. Reminds me of those Captain Kirk vs. Captain Picard debates on the Star Trek boards about "best Enterprise captain ever" and whatnot.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

BTW, the "emotional perceptions" you speak of are really only a result that many of the participants in the coin market simply do not know how to grade. As much as the TPGs have helped the coin market over the years one of the downsides is the dumbing down of collectors/dealers ability to grade a coin themselves....unfortunately.

Agreed....when do you or others here believe that this PCGS vs. NGC dichotomy appeared ? Was it always there, dating back to the late-1980's ? Did NGC have a period where they were looser OR tighter with their grades (ironically, being tighter hurts more initially but helps longer-term; looser helps initially but hurts longer-term).

 

Maybe a few PCGS coins sold at big premiums -- for random reasons -- relative to similarly-graded NGCs and word spread ?

 

Coin pricing has been EXTRAORDINARILY volatile over the last 25 years, especially the premiums for premium-graded coins. If a few well-heeled collectors happened to score big with fatter gains from PCGS vs. NGC, they could have tilted the balance, too. Add in the Internet, and word spreads alot more than it would have 30-40 years ago when business was done person-to-person, at coin shops, and at shows.

 

JMHO. (thumbs u

[coinman_23885]

The same coin should not sell for five figures more because of a plastic holder and sticker. The quality of the coin should be the controlling/important consideration. To be honest, it makes me worry about the long term stability of the coin market.

As a financial professional I disagree and here's why.

 

It's clear -- and I agree it's more style/preference than substance -- that PCGS is more preferred than NGC. So PCGS sells for a premium, all else equal. It's no different than technical analysis (TA) being very important in the currency market (it dominates here relative to all other asset classes) mostly because the short-term nature of currency trading and the size gives added weight to TA because everybody is following the same thing.

 

 

But I am interested in the long term stability of the market since I am predominantly a collector, and will have my holdings for some time to come. And it is unclear how often plastic fads will last. Anytime a commodity's value is not based on itself but its wrapping/ornamental decorating, I grow very concerned. It is no longer the quality of the coin that matters, but irrational speculation/hype that is driving the prices. I do not think this is sustainable long term. It leaves me wondering what the true value of the pieces actually is...

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

The same coin should not sell for five figures more because of a plastic holder and sticker. The quality of the coin should be the controlling/important consideration. To be honest, it makes me worry about the long term stability of the coin market.

As a financial professional I disagree and here's why.

 

It's clear -- and I agree it's more style/preference than substance -- that PCGS is more preferred than NGC. So PCGS sells for a premium, all else equal. It's no different than technical analysis (TA) being very important in the currency market (it dominates here relative to all other asset classes) mostly because the short-term nature of currency trading and the size gives added weight to TA because everybody is following the same thing.

 

 

But I am interested in the long term stability of the market since I am predominantly a collector, and will have my holdings for some time to come. And it is unclear how often plastic fads will last. Anytime a commodity's value is not based on itself but its wrapping/ornamental decorating, I grow very concerned. It is no longer the quality of the coin that matters, but irrational speculation/hype that is driving the prices. I do not think this is sustainable long term. It leaves me wondering what the true value of the pieces actually is...

 

I would think the true value is what someone pays in real time...at the moment it is sold. The rest is speculation.

 

While I have a sophomoric )and most certainly wrong) understanding of TA, TA can be very different from actual value. A predictor, of course, but not finality.

 

So, we developed the Stock Market, so a person could make their own decisions based on their own belief and and experiences.

[GoldFinger1969]

But I am interested in the long term stability of the market since I am predominantly a collector, and will have my holdings for some time to come.

Agreed, but not everybody is as knowledgeable AND rationale AND as good a grader as you and some of the vets here. That's my point.

 

And it is unclear how often plastic fads will last.

Not sure I would call it a fad, though if I understand correctly the premium on this NGC-to-PCGS coin seemed a Blue Moon anomaly.

 

If theoretically you could take 2 identical non-modern coins and they looked exactly the same and got the same grade, the MOST I would pay for any PCGS "premium" would be 5%, if that. That's assuming a coin costing a few thousand dollars, like a Saint.

 

Since I am NOT a seller, I really don't care if someone tries to discount me in the future by having an NGC. Even if such a discount still exists then. And I could always just wait and seek out a knowledgeable buyer, like you guys.

 

Anytime a commodity's value is not based on itself but its wrapping/ornamental decorating, I grow very concerned. It is no longer the quality of the coin that matters, but irrational speculation/hype that is driving the prices. I do not think this is sustainable long term. It leaves me wondering what the true value of the pieces actually is...

I think you're overreacting. If the PCGS premium to NGC is very modest, it might still be irrational but it shouldn't destroy/hurt the hobby (much bigger fish to fry there, IMO). Now, if identical or nearly-identical coins and identically-graded coins start selling for 20%, 30%, 50% premiums in PCGS (modern stuff excluded, where more dummies are prevalent than on classic stuff), then I'd agree with you. Hopefully, we don't get there.

[GoldFinger1969]

While I have a sophomoric )and most certainly wrong) understanding of TA, TA can be very different from actual value. A predictor, of course, but not finality.

Actually, TA has nothing to do with value, fundamental or otherwise, just price prediction.

 

[WoodenJefferson]

Since this type of coin is basically out of my league no matter who's holder it's in or stickered with beans or other non-transferable decals, I have no opinion nor do I care.

 

It's a beautiful coin to get quickly buried in, especially if you think it will up-grade or be worth more than the hammer price. That's some serious money.

 

This is definitely a game for a wealthy speculator.

[Mozin]

The difference in prices realized between PCGS and NGC graded coins much depends on the coin series.

 

PCGS definitely rules in the Bust Series. With gold, I see little difference. Classic Commemorative prices are quite close too.

 

I know nothing about other coin series relative prices.

[19Lyds]

When Ankur (or anyone else) makes a statement like that it's like throwing meat to the wolves. There are just enough dummies (read Koolade drinkers) over there to forget about the intent of the thread and focus their attention on perceived differences between the services.

 

Each service does treat some coin series differently, that's a fact.

 

Knowing and exploiting those differences is a money maker for those who know what they're looking at.

 

Similarly, many of the loyal commenters that love to pile on are Dealers. If you saw that coin back in an NGC holder in their case do you think they would be willing to give "the NGC discount"? Pffffft.

 

It's entirely possible that the person laying out the big bucks recently for the coin may be the biggest knucklehead in the bunch. If he/she did their homework they should question how the coin got upgraded and stickered. Logic tells me that to offer up a way bigger money for the coin just because it went into a new stickered holder means NGC was stricter or, the coin is now over graded.

 

The coin didn't change. The process was manipulated.

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of "homework", the coin did not "upgrade". It merely changed grading company slabs.

 

Besides, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the coin as much as its a jab at AnkurJ who made a perfectly plausible statement regarding the higher price paid for the coin.

 

It seems to me that this is the type of baloney that gave the CU Forums a bad name and certain folks that either got bammed over there have brought their childish bashing over here.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

While I have a sophomoric )and most certainly wrong) understanding of TA, TA can be very different from actual value. A predictor, of course, but not finality.

Actually, TA has nothing to do with value, fundamental or otherwise, just price prediction.

 

Excuse me, and no offense, but that is exactly what is being discussed.

Please read again....predictor. Nothing more, nothing less. The true value at any moment is what the coin sells for at the moment is is offered for sale. Stock market, market prediction, technical analysis. See?

Don't be condescending.

[jom]

Agreed....when do you or others here believe that this PCGS vs. NGC dichotomy appeared ?

 

I recall that there was always a slight premium in prices paid for PCGS coin in the mid-90s. The "serious" debate came along probably 8 years ago or so...a bit before CAC started. As Mozin pointed out it really isn't an overall difference but it's limited to certain series of coins. Why or how that translates to all series (as I've heard some suggest) I have no idea.

 

To add to Mozin's list I'd probably guess that NGC is superior at World coins...and although I'm not entirely certain I think it's by a wide margin.

 

jom

[RWB]

There is no "long term stability" in rare coins. Just enjoy a hobby and don't turn it into an obsession.

 

[Hard Times]

When Ankur (or anyone else) makes a statement like that it's like throwing meat to the wolves. There are just enough dummies (read Koolade drinkers) over there to forget about the intent of the thread and focus their attention on perceived differences between the services.

 

Each service does treat some coin series differently, that's a fact.

 

Knowing and exploiting those differences is a money maker for those who know what they're looking at.

 

Similarly, many of the loyal commenters that love to pile on are Dealers. If you saw that coin back in an NGC holder in their case do you think they would be willing to give "the NGC discount"? Pffffft.

 

It's entirely possible that the person laying out the big bucks recently for the coin may be the biggest knucklehead in the bunch. If he/she did their homework they should question how the coin got upgraded and stickered. Logic tells me that to offer up a way bigger money for the coin just because it went into a new stickered holder means NGC was stricter or, the coin is now over graded.

 

The coin didn't change. The process was manipulated.

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of "homework", the coin did not "upgrade". It merely changed grading company slabs.

 

Besides, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the coin as much as its a jab at AnkurJ who made a perfectly plausible statement regarding the higher price paid for the coin.

 

It seems to me that this is the type of baloney that gave the CU Forums a bad name and certain folks that either got bammed over there have brought their childish bashing over here.

 

I started this thread as an open invitation to Ankur J who made a blanket statement that suggests he believes there is a 'Lack of Faith in NGC" (his words verbatim). I asked him to elaborate and so far he has not. I think it is only fair to our hosts for him to do so since he posts on these boards.

 

I also documented that many influential people in numismataics appear to disagree with such a blanket statement. If you want to say it is a jab at Ankur, feel free to do so. But Ankur, nor anyone else, still has not elaborated nor countered why many famous collectors, Smithsonian, ANA, and Heritage all seem to have 'Faith in NGC'.

 

He who accuses others of 'childish bashing' should read their own posts before making such accusations.

 

Best, HT

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

When Ankur (or anyone else) makes a statement like that it's like throwing meat to the wolves. There are just enough dummies (read Koolade drinkers) over there to forget about the intent of the thread and focus their attention on perceived differences between the services.

 

Each service does treat some coin series differently, that's a fact.

 

Knowing and exploiting those differences is a money maker for those who know what they're looking at.

 

Similarly, many of the loyal commenters that love to pile on are Dealers. If you saw that coin back in an NGC holder in their case do you think they would be willing to give "the NGC discount"? Pffffft.

 

It's entirely possible that the person laying out the big bucks recently for the coin may be the biggest knucklehead in the bunch. If he/she did their homework they should question how the coin got upgraded and stickered. Logic tells me that to offer up a way bigger money for the coin just because it went into a new stickered holder means NGC was stricter or, the coin is now over graded.

 

The coin didn't change. The process was manipulated.

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of "homework", the coin did not "upgrade". It merely changed grading company slabs.

 

Besides, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the coin as much as its a jab at AnkurJ who made a perfectly plausible statement regarding the higher price paid for the coin.

 

It seems to me that this is the type of baloney that gave the CU Forums a bad name and certain folks that either got bammed over there have brought their childish bashing over here.

 

I thought the coin received a +, thanks to the above average grading skill of an average collector.

Isn't that an upgrade, in the context of the discussion? Or, is it that a same #grade in one tpg holder is the same as the same # grade with a + in another tpg?

[Kurtdog]

Would we expect any more of an insightful response from the guy who started the "kool kids club CAC forum"...the only forum of its kind that is locked to only members?

As long as they keep them locked up in there the public is safe.

[Coinbuf]

When Ankur (or anyone else) makes a statement like that it's like throwing meat to the wolves. There are just enough dummies (read Koolade drinkers) over there to forget about the intent of the thread and focus their attention on perceived differences between the services.

 

Each service does treat some coin series differently, that's a fact.

 

Knowing and exploiting those differences is a money maker for those who know what they're looking at.

 

Similarly, many of the loyal commenters that love to pile on are Dealers. If you saw that coin back in an NGC holder in their case do you think they would be willing to give "the NGC discount"? Pffffft.

 

It's entirely possible that the person laying out the big bucks recently for the coin may be the biggest knucklehead in the bunch. If he/she did their homework they should question how the coin got upgraded and stickered. Logic tells me that to offer up a way bigger money for the coin just because it went into a new stickered holder means NGC was stricter or, the coin is now over graded.

 

The coin didn't change. The process was manipulated.

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of "homework", the coin did not "upgrade". It merely changed grading company slabs.

 

Besides, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the coin as much as its a jab at AnkurJ who made a perfectly plausible statement regarding the higher price paid for the coin.

 

It seems to me that this is the type of baloney that gave the CU Forums a bad name and certain folks that either got bammed over there have brought their childish bashing over here.

 

I thought the coin received a +, thanks to the above average grading skill of an average collector.

Isn't that an upgrade, in the context of the discussion? Or, is it that a same #grade in one tpg holder is the same as the same # grade with a + in another tpg?

 

Long threads like this tend to get off center, as I understand it the flow of grades went like this:

 

1 Sold in an NGC holder

2 Reappeared in a PCGS/CAC holder of the same grade and sold for 2.5X more than when in the NGC holder

3 Then upgraded to a +/CAC grade and sold for an addtional 10K

 

Not sure that I saw anywhere who (legend or a prior owner) got the + upgrade

 

[AnkurJ]

HT: Next time you have an issue with a post of mine, how about you just email me or PM me?

 

My statement was in SUPPORT OF NGC. Saying the reason the coin went for far less than when it crossed was because people have lack of faith in NGC. You may interpret it as you would like.

 

This will be my one and only post on this thread. My time is far to precious to bother with things that do not enhance my life.

 

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

When Ankur (or anyone else) makes a statement like that it's like throwing meat to the wolves. There are just enough dummies (read Koolade drinkers) over there to forget about the intent of the thread and focus their attention on perceived differences between the services.

 

Each service does treat some coin series differently, that's a fact.

 

Knowing and exploiting those differences is a money maker for those who know what they're looking at.

 

Similarly, many of the loyal commenters that love to pile on are Dealers. If you saw that coin back in an NGC holder in their case do you think they would be willing to give "the NGC discount"? Pffffft.

 

It's entirely possible that the person laying out the big bucks recently for the coin may be the biggest knucklehead in the bunch. If he/she did their homework they should question how the coin got upgraded and stickered. Logic tells me that to offer up a way bigger money for the coin just because it went into a new stickered holder means NGC was stricter or, the coin is now over graded.

 

The coin didn't change. The process was manipulated.

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of "homework", the coin did not "upgrade". It merely changed grading company slabs.

 

Besides, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the coin as much as its a jab at AnkurJ who made a perfectly plausible statement regarding the higher price paid for the coin.

 

It seems to me that this is the type of baloney that gave the CU Forums a bad name and certain folks that either got bammed over there have brought their childish bashing over here.

 

I thought the coin received a +, thanks to the above average grading skill of an average collector.

Isn't that an upgrade, in the context of the discussion? Or, is it that a same #grade in one tpg holder is the same as the same # grade with a + in another tpg?

 

Long threads like this tend to get off center, as I understand it the flow of grades went like this:

 

1 Sold in an NGC holder

2 Reappeared in a PCGS/CAC holder of the same grade and sold for 2.5X more than when in the NGC holder

3 Then upgraded to a +/CAC grade and sold for an addtional 10K

 

Not sure that I saw anywhere who (legend or a prior owner) got the + upgrade

 

It was stated it was Legend. I was being a smartazz....skeptical, admittedly, but still a smartazz.

I freely admit it, and was not promised anything or any type of inducement for freely admitting it.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

HT: Next time you have an issue with a post of mine, how about you just email me or PM me?

 

My statement was in SUPPORT OF NGC. Saying the reason the coin went for far less than when it crossed was because people have lack of faith in NGC. You may interpret it as you would like.

 

This will be my one and only post on this thread. My time is far to precious to bother with things that do not enhance my life.

 

 

That is how I interpreted it, thus my reason for being a smartazz.

[bochiman]

Bochi et al., All I am asking is that if someone makes a blanket statement like that, I would like to have them elaborate. Does Ankur mean himself, does he mean PCGS faithful (his term, faith) believe NGC is somehow inferior? It would be interesting for him to elaborate because all of the data out there puts the grading of these two companies to pretty much the same. On the grand scale, that is really what value is about, what is the quality of the coin, meaning how do you grade it. Given this topic ATS, I think it is important to discuss over here as well and ask Ankur what he means by a statement that could be considered damning towards our hosts. If you want to make it more than that, that is your problem. It would be nice for Ankur to come over here and candidly tell us what he means. Dats all I am sayin'

 

Best, HT

 

 

Actually, Hard Times, I have read enough of your posts to know you are actually a pretty smart person.

As such, you know what you are typing/doing as you do it. There isn't much you are just tossing out there blindly.

 

To that point, I do not think you are asking Ankur anything. You are stirring the pot, as I mentioned, by trying to take something said on another forum, bringing it to this forum, and presenting it with little info either than "look what THEY are saying!!!! What do you (some of whom have a raging ****on to attack anything PCGS related (forum/poster/etc) think??? wink wink)".

 

If, as you say, you really wanted to ask Ankur what his thoughts concerning his post were, you would have PMed him, or flat out asked. Here or there. Not posted something by tossing it out there.

 

As we have found out by Ankur himself, you did NOT PM him, nor directly ask him his thoughts, at all.

 

So, we get back to the only thing that really makes sense....you were, once again, looking to start attacks by bringing things from one forum to another that you felt would do so.

 

 

If, as you stated, it is something posted over there that YOU felt is important to discuss here.....why not present the statement yourself, without mentioning any names, giving links, or even saying it was said on another board? Just present it as if YOU were stating it? Whether or not you believe it is so shouldn't matter as you are "just bringing it for discussion and it is important to do so"....right?

 

No, I'll stick with you being smart enough in what you do that what you did was, once again, deliberate.

 

Carry on, as I am sure you won't change or respect others as you will continue to try to cause issues/arguments across the boards by doing just as you have done.

[MarkFeld]

Bochi et al., All I am asking is that if someone makes a blanket statement like that, I would like to have them elaborate. Does Ankur mean himself, does he mean PCGS faithful (his term, faith) believe NGC is somehow inferior? It would be interesting for him to elaborate because all of the data out there puts the grading of these two companies to pretty much the same. On the grand scale, that is really what value is about, what is the quality of the coin, meaning how do you grade it. Given this topic ATS, I think it is important to discuss over here as well and ask Ankur what he means by a statement that could be considered damning towards our hosts. If you want to make it more than that, that is your problem. It would be nice for Ankur to come over here and candidly tell us what he means. Dats all I am sayin'

 

Best, HT

 

 

Actually, Hard Times, I have read enough of your posts to know you are actually a pretty smart person.

As such, you know what you are typing/doing as you do it. There isn't much you are just tossing out there blindly.

 

To that point, I do not think you are asking Ankur anything. You are stirring the pot, as I mentioned, by trying to take something said on another forum, bringing it to this forum, and presenting it with little info either than "look what THEY are saying!!!! What do you (some of whom have a raging ****on to attack anything PCGS related (forum/poster/etc) think??? wink wink)".

 

If, as you say, you really wanted to ask Ankur what his thoughts concerning his post were, you would have PMed him, or flat out asked. Here or there. Not posted something by tossing it out there.

 

As we have found out by Ankur himself, you did NOT PM him, nor directly ask him his thoughts, at all.

 

So, we get back to the only thing that really makes sense....you were, once again, looking to start attacks by bringing things from one forum to another that you felt would do so.

 

 

If, as you stated, it is something posted over there that YOU felt is important to discuss here.....why not present the statement yourself, without mentioning any names, giving links, or even saying it was said on another board? Just present it as if YOU were stating it? Whether or not you believe it is so shouldn't matter as you are "just bringing it for discussion and it is important to do so"....right?

 

No, I'll stick with you being smart enough in what you do that what you did was, once again, deliberate.

 

Carry on, as I am sure you won't change or respect others as you will continue to try to cause issues/arguments across the boards by doing just as you have done.

 

Well said, Ron. Someone was "at it again", but it wasn't Ankur.

[ElmerFusterpuck]

Bochi et al., All I am asking is that if someone makes a blanket statement like that, I would like to have them elaborate. Does Ankur mean himself, does he mean PCGS faithful (his term, faith) believe NGC is somehow inferior? It would be interesting for him to elaborate because all of the data out there puts the grading of these two companies to pretty much the same. On the grand scale, that is really what value is about, what is the quality of the coin, meaning how do you grade it. Given this topic ATS, I think it is important to discuss over here as well and ask Ankur what he means by a statement that could be considered damning towards our hosts. If you want to make it more than that, that is your problem. It would be nice for Ankur to come over here and candidly tell us what he means. Dats all I am sayin'

 

Best, HT

 

 

Actually, Hard Times, I have read enough of your posts to know you are actually a pretty smart person.

As such, you know what you are typing/doing as you do it. There isn't much you are just tossing out there blindly.

 

To that point, I do not think you are asking Ankur anything. You are stirring the pot, as I mentioned, by trying to take something said on another forum, bringing it to this forum, and presenting it with little info either than "look what THEY are saying!!!! What do you (some of whom have a raging ****on to attack anything PCGS related (forum/poster/etc) think??? wink wink)".

 

If, as you say, you really wanted to ask Ankur what his thoughts concerning his post were, you would have PMed him, or flat out asked. Here or there. Not posted something by tossing it out there.

 

As we have found out by Ankur himself, you did NOT PM him, nor directly ask him his thoughts, at all.

 

So, we get back to the only thing that really makes sense....you were, once again, looking to start attacks by bringing things from one forum to another that you felt would do so.

 

 

If, as you stated, it is something posted over there that YOU felt is important to discuss here.....why not present the statement yourself, without mentioning any names, giving links, or even saying it was said on another board? Just present it as if YOU were stating it? Whether or not you believe it is so shouldn't matter as you are "just bringing it for discussion and it is important to do so"....right?

 

No, I'll stick with you being smart enough in what you do that what you did was, once again, deliberate.

 

Carry on, as I am sure you won't change or respect others as you will continue to try to cause issues/arguments across the boards by doing just as you have done.

 

Well said, Ron. Someone was "at it again", but it wasn't Ankur.

 

Deja vu all over again; it's the same posters that filled in words for me and 'stirred the pot' when I posted my show report that has a note about dealers slagging NGC (which I just reported, not said myself). Not really all that surpised. Guess you need to flush twice sometimes.

[GoldFinger1969]

Excuse me, and no offense, but that is exactly what is being discussed. Please read again....predictor. Nothing more, nothing less. The true value at any moment is what the coin sells for at the moment is is offered for sale. Stock market, market prediction, technical analysis. See? Don't be condescending.

I wasn't and am not.

 

TA is about predicting future prices. It is the antithesis of fundamental research as it is strictly about charts and has nothing to do with value, earnings, overpriced, or underpriced. That's all I wanted to say so nobody confused the two. Was not tweaking you, just wanted to make sure the distinction was clear to non-financial experts here.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Excuse me, and no offense, but that is exactly what is being discussed. Please read again....predictor. Nothing more, nothing less. The true value at any moment is what the coin sells for at the moment is is offered for sale. Stock market, market prediction, technical analysis. See? Don't be condescending.

I wasn't and am not.

 

TA is about predicting future prices. It is the antithesis of fundamental research as it is strictly about charts and has nothing to do with value, earnings, overpriced, or underpriced. That's all I wanted to say so nobody confused the two. Was not tweaking you, just wanted to make sure the distinction was clear to non-financial experts here.

 

Then we concur, it appears.

 

Thank you. I guess I am just used to being tweaked all the time, and assume it is happening again

 

I am so misunderstood.

 

It is not you, it is me....

[GoldFinger1969]

It is not you, it is me....

You're giving ME the "it's not you, it's me" routine ? !

 

[19Lyds]

When Ankur (or anyone else) makes a statement like that it's like throwing meat to the wolves. There are just enough dummies (read Koolade drinkers) over there to forget about the intent of the thread and focus their attention on perceived differences between the services.

 

Each service does treat some coin series differently, that's a fact.

 

Knowing and exploiting those differences is a money maker for those who know what they're looking at.

 

Similarly, many of the loyal commenters that love to pile on are Dealers. If you saw that coin back in an NGC holder in their case do you think they would be willing to give "the NGC discount"? Pffffft.

 

It's entirely possible that the person laying out the big bucks recently for the coin may be the biggest knucklehead in the bunch. If he/she did their homework they should question how the coin got upgraded and stickered. Logic tells me that to offer up a way bigger money for the coin just because it went into a new stickered holder means NGC was stricter or, the coin is now over graded.

 

The coin didn't change. The process was manipulated.

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of "homework", the coin did not "upgrade". It merely changed grading company slabs.

 

Besides, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the coin as much as its a jab at AnkurJ who made a perfectly plausible statement regarding the higher price paid for the coin.

 

It seems to me that this is the type of baloney that gave the CU Forums a bad name and certain folks that either got bammed over there have brought their childish bashing over here.

 

I started this thread as an open invitation to Ankur J who made a blanket statement that suggests he believes there is a 'Lack of Faith in NGC" (his words verbatim). I asked him to elaborate and so far he has not. I think it is only fair to our hosts for him to do so since he posts on these boards.

 

I also documented that many influential people in numismataics appear to disagree with such a blanket statement. If you want to say it is a jab at Ankur, feel free to do so. But Ankur, nor anyone else, still has not elaborated nor countered why many famous collectors, Smithsonian, ANA, and Heritage all seem to have 'Faith in NGC'.

 

He who accuses others of 'childish bashing' should read their own posts before making such accusations.

 

Best, HT

Smithsonian?

 

These are the folks that "Literally" cleaned many old rarities so that they'd look purty for the crowds.

 

ANA? If you spend enough money, you too could be the official ANA Grading company. From what I understand, it's an open bid.

 

Heritage? An auction company that sells and submits coins to both TPG's. Heck, they even sell ICG and ANACS Slabbed Coins yet, nobody would mind one wit if someone stated that a coin sold so cheaply because it was in an ICG or ANACS Slab.

 

Besides these points, AnkurJ's statement was a statement of "fact" based upon open bidding and had absolutely no basis about whether one company was better than the other. His comment was aimed at the bidder - not the TPG yet...........you chose to view it "otherwise" for whatever reason.

 

Even the thread title indicates some type of disparaging slam at AnkurJ.

 

Sheesh.

[WoodenJefferson]

 

WOW! In all the years I've been here, this is the very first time I ever use this little thingy.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

 

WOW! In all the years I've been here, this is the very first time I ever use this little thingy.

 

Whew...I thought that was headed for "my" instead of "this". Nice Save.

[rrantique]

 

WOW! In all the years I've been here, this is the very first time I ever use this little thingy.

 

Whew...I thought that was headed for "my" instead of "this". Nice Save.

 

[coinman_23885]

Besides these points, AnkurJ's statement was a statement of "fact" based upon open bidding and had absolutely no basis about whether one company was better than the other. His comment was aimed at the bidder - not the TPG yet....

 

This is the part that many are missing.