Reactions to Prices in Heritage Wednesday Night FUN Auction?

[Chippewa]

I had half-heartedly bid on a few coins Wednesday but did not win any auctions. I see this as a good thing, keeping the powder dry until some other people have run out of money.

 

However, it is clear that some of the people in the high-end coin game now will never run out of money. The number of coins that went in the six-seven figure range is mindboggling.

 

The coin I really wanted was the Norse Matte Proof Gold Medal in NGC MS67. I stayed with the bidding until I was convinced that someone out there with deep pockets wanted it worse than me. With the juice it went for over $40,000. I suspect that the seller is a very happy man.

 

Any other surprises? Wins or losses?

[James_OldeTowne]

I won a single coin and paid only average money for it. There are two more coins I will bid on tonight, and currently, they are both way under where they should be, in my opinion. Where I think the crazy money is going is to the very high-end coins, but that is not my market.

 

Don't lose heart! We can't control other (read "crazy") bidders, but we can control our expectations.

 

James

[Tradedollarnut]

I was blown out on everything that interested me. It's interesting to note that the new third highest and fourth highest prices ever at auction occurred last night. Additionally, another coin [1894-S dime] joined the million dollar club and two others very nearly did as well.

 

Guess a million just ain't what it used to be!

[melmcbee]

Tradedollarnut, did you say a million? Would anyone have a picture or a link to a coin that cost a million? I would love to see it. Thanks

[Chippewa]

Go to www.heritagecoins.com and browse the "Prices Realized" for the FUN Signature auction. You may need to do the free registration to do this but if you are a collector you will end up with a Heritage account sooner or later anyway. As I said, it is free and they do not spam you.

 

You can sort the listing from high to low based on bid price.

 

Have fun.

[gmarguli]

I was blown out on everything that interested me.

 

Guess a million just ain't what it used to be!

 

Piker.

[James_OldeTowne]

Apparently, I won two more coins, one for strong money, the other for average money. I lost out one coin that I placed an average bid on.

 

James

[sadysta1]

Post the link to the winners, please

[spy88]

Would anyone have a picture or a link to a coin that cost a million? I would love to see it. Thanks:)

Melanie, here is the $1,035,000 Barber PCGS 1894-S PR65 dime. Quite the provenance behind this coin! Very interesting reading quoted from the auction page below coin.

 

1894-S 10C PR65 PCGS. As one of the "Big Three" of American numismatics, along with the 1913 Liberty nickel and the 1804 silver dollar, acquisition of this rarity has long been regarded as a pinnacle of collecting. Of these three rarities, only the 1894-S dime was officially listed in Mint Reports at the time of issue.

This is one of the finest known 1894-S Barber dimes, and is the single most important example from a historical perspective. Only three of the nine currently known examples have been described as Gem quality. The Eliasberg Collection coin was described in the May 1996 sale as Proof 65; however, that coin has reportedly been dipped at least twice since the sale. The Eliasberg duplicate, sold by Stack's in 1947, is graded PR66 by NGC, but despite the grade, it is the coin that Eliasberg considered his duplicate, thus is probably no finer than the coin he kept.

In our opinion, this coin is equal to the primary Eliasberg coin retained for his collection, and these two are the two finest examples. Both of these coins are superior to the Eliasberg duplicate that was sold by Stack's in 1947, despite its higher certified grade.

Why were there only 24 dimes struck at the San Francisco Mint in 1894? This question has been asked by numismatists for many years. And why were they all struck as Proofs? Several theories over the years have tried to explain the mintage of these coins.

One of the early theories suggested that these 24 coins were simply struck to balance the books in 1894, as reported in the April 1928 issue of The Numismatist. This theory was related by Farran Zerbe who claims that the information was given to him at the San Francisco Mint in 1905:

"To close a bullion account at the San Francisco Mint at the end of the fiscal year, June 30th, 1894, it was found necessary to show 40 cents, odd, in the year's coinage. The mint not having coined any dimes during the year, the dime dies were put to work, and to produce the needed 40 cents, 24 pieces were struck, any reasonable amount of even dollars over the 40 cents being readily absorbed in the account. It has been stated that at the time no thought was given by the mint people that a rarity had been produced, it being supposed they would, as always in the past, be ordered to coin dimes before the close of the year. It so happened that no dime coinage was ordered and the unintentional error was not realized until the year's coinage record was closed."

Two parts of this theory do not seem to make sense today. If the coinage was indeed produced to close a bullion account that was off by 40 cents, why did it not matter how many even dollars over this amount were produced? Doesn't it make sense that the bullion account was then out of balance by two dollars? The second question surrounding the Zerbe report concerns the condition of these coins. With the exception of two heavily circulated examples, every known 1894-S dime is a Proof. If Mint personnel were simply balancing the account, why did they take the time to create these coins as Proofs, especially if "no thought was given by the mint people that a rarity had been produced." Today, the Zerbe account is considered to be illogical and inaccurate.

James Johnson presented the Presentation Specimen theory in his Coin World article of September 13, 1972. He reported that his information came from Earl Parker who purchased two examples from Hallie Daggett in 1950. Hallie was the daughter of John Daggett, the superintendent of the San Francisco Mint in 1894. These details reportedly came directly from Hallie Daggett via Parker. It seems that seven banker friends of John Daggett were visiting the San Francisco Mint in 1894, and desirous of a souvenir, each received three freshly minted Proof dimes. The remaining three went to Daggett, who gave all three to his daughter. Why were dimes the coins of choice for this presentation? Why not special presentation gold coins or silver dollars? Also, why did Daggett give all three dimes to his middle child and not one to each of his three children? Perhaps he distributed them among all three and Hallie eventually received the others from her siblings. If she did spend one on ice cream, as the story is told, perhaps that was her only example, leaving just two coins in the family. The Johnson report provides the most credible theory about these coins, although even this is based on the memory of Earl Parker, two decades after the fact, with Parker relying on the recollection of Ms. Daggett, who was 72 years old when she met with Parker. Today, this is the production theory that is taken as fact, and is the theory that Walter Breen published in his various encyclopedic works.

William Burd has discounted the Johnson theory as part fact and part fiction, stating that the part about various bankers each receiving three pieces is fictional. His research was published in "The Inscrutable 1894-S Dime" appearing in The Numismatist, February 1994. Burd suggested the possibility that "Daggett simply held a reception or party and produced the dimes as demonstration pieces or souvenirs. He may have had dignitaries in from Washington, local supporters, or relatives visiting from the East. Perhaps he held a gathering commemorating his nomination to the office a year earlier. At the time, he most likely believed a regular production of dimes would be run in the second half of the year." Today, this commentary provides even more speculation without any hard evidence. Burd continued: "Until someone can produce Mint records that detail day-to-day operations at San Francisco, we can only surmise what took place."

Until such evidence is located, we will not know the true story behind these coins. Only a few facts are known, everything else is speculation:

1. Only 24 examples were struck and they were struck during the first half of the year, according to official mint records.

2. One or more examples were reserved for the Assay Commission that met on February 13, 1895. Were these included in the 24 coins minted, or were the Assay coins in addition to the 24 examples?

3. All were struck as Proofs, and all but two retain some or full mirrored proof finish today. They were struck from a single pair of dies, indicating all were struck at approximately the same time.

4. Aside from the record in contemporary mint reports, the first public notice that these coins existed was not until the March 1900 issue of The Numismatist.

These four points are the only facts of the 1894-S dime case.

The Confusing Pedigree of 1894-S Dimes

Several different authors and sources have provided pedigree listings of the 1894-S dimes. To this day, however, none have provided a complete and accurate pedigree listing of the nine known specimens. James Johnson published a listing in Coin World in the September 13, 1972 issue. Johnson wrote a follow-(#4805) (Registry values: P10)

[spy88]

And here is one of them I almost had in my collection...til someone sniped it out from under me at $100 more then my bid. Sokay tho, this kind of money will go towards many others I need that are lots cheaper! This is the one and only MS68FS graded 40-D from NGC. PCGS hasn't graded one past 67. Went for $3680 with the juice. It is extremely clean and (from the photo) very attractive, but the strike is that of a 65. There are too many 40-D FS Jeffs out there with better strikes in 67FS (and with 6FS) to sweat losing out on this one.

 

 

[Elcontador]

I was the underbidder on a Coronet Head Large Cent. I bid strong, but not stupid money for it. I haven't seen one like it in a year and a half. Eventually, another one will turn up. If it was offered to me at the selling price, I would have turned it down.

[James_OldeTowne]

I don't think it appropriate if I link to the two coins I won for clients, but here's the coin I won for myself, a 1954-D Washington quarter, MS-66 (PCGS) (Heritage photo):

 

Auction Link

 

I have been trying to put a 1954-D into my collection literally for YEARS, but have become frustrated with coins that are either poorly struck, or too white. This coin has a couple of nicks, but appears to be originally toned and to have a good strike. I had a friend look at it, and apparently, it is very lustrous as well.

 

My max bid was $130, and I won it for $110 (= $126.50), which I consider an average bid. "Trends" shows a value of $350, but we all know that's ridiculously high.

 

As soon as I get the coin, it will be cracked out and put in my Dansco album, and that page will finally, FINALLY be completed.

 

James

[EZ_E]

The coin I really wanted was the Norse Matte Proof Gold Medal in NGC MS67. I stayed with the bidding until I was convinced that someone out there with deep pockets wanted it worse than me. With the juice it went for over $40,000. I suspect that the seller is a very happy man.

 

Any other surprises? Wins or losses?

 

Now, that is a sweet piece. Very low mintage with many of them impaired proofs.

 

The thick and thin silver medals were once considered part of the classic commem set to the old timers but have faded from interest in recent years.

 

The thin medal has a lower mintage and is hence, more desirable than the thick medal. They have a diameter of 1 1/4" which makes it a little incongruous with other commems, though.

 

Anyway, thanks for the info!

[melmcbee]

David, thank-you for posting the picture with the added history. That was so interesting. It is helpful to understand why certain dates are rare or key. If you run into anymore interesting history just drop me a line. I would love to learn more about the rare or key dates.

 

Chippewa I cant tell you how much I appreciate your advice. I have been trying to figure a way around Heritage without going through every coin or starting from lower denomination or there must be a ton of Morgan pages.

[Chippewa]

EZ E

 

Yes, the Gold Norse was a beaut, the best I have ever seen. I wanted it bad to complete my gold commem set and was willing to spend a large portion of my 2005 coin budget to land it. However, when the bid hit $40,000 I decided that discretion was the better part of valour.

 

If anyone knows of a nice Gold Norse in the 64-66 range, I am a buyer.

 

On other Heritage FUN auctions I am getting blown out on almost everything I bid on. If my gold dollar bids do not hold up I may not have to write Heritage a check this month.

[Oldtrader3]

I was watching several Heritage coins but the bids went into the stratosphere quickly and I backed off.

[gmarguli]

While not FUN show Heritage purchases, these were purchased from their NYINC auction going on at basically the same time at the NYC world coin show. I gave up on purchasing US coins. Too much stupid money and speculation going on for it to be a good investment.

 

A German (Speyer) taler dated 1770-AS, marking the accession of August Philipp. Original mintage of 5,000.

 

An AH1398 (1978) & AH1400 (1979) Sudan 10 Pound Piefort (double thick) in copper. Mintage 5 each.

 

[Chippewa]

"A Sudan 10 Pound Piefort in copper."

 

Allah be praised!!!

 

I see that your collecting interests are not limited to any country, continent, metal, century or religion. It must be hard to decide what to buy??

[EZ_E]

"A Sudan 10 Pound Piefort in copper."

 

Allah be praised!!!

 

I see that your collecting interests are not limited to any country, continent, metal, century or religion. It must be hard to decide what to buy??

 

But good taste is common throughout his collecting interests!

[Techno_mike-migration]

I'm pretty happy with the coin I got ...but I'm not in the rarified air of million dollar coins...probably would spent it if I had it though.

[JamminJ]

I'm pretty happy with the coin I got ...but I'm not in the rarified air of million dollar coins...probably would spent it if I had it though.

 

Don't leave us hanging, man, what is it?

 

-JamminJ

[Techno_mike-migration]

Sorry about that...

 

A '58 Franklin NGC certified MS-67. A dealer I have worked with attended and confirmed that the coin is not as dark as imaged so I bid.

 

I tried to attached their image, but post failed three times. I will photo with my own equipment when it is delivered.

[JamminJ]

Sorry about that...

 

A '58 Franklin NGC certified MS-67. A dealer I have worked with attended and confirmed that the coin is not as dark as imaged so I bid.

 

I tried to attached their image, but post failed three times. I will photo with my own equipment when it is delivered.

 

Thanks! I'm looking forward to the photos.

 

-JamminJ

[Morgannut]

The Morgan I was really excited about went for an even $26,000 more than I wanted to pay--And I foolishly thought I was making a strong bid!! I had 3 coins in

the auction and thought the Heritage photos were terrible misrepresentations of the coin's actual appearance. In this light, I'm sure some nice coins went to floor bidders because the internet bidders didn't have a fair idea of the item's quality.

[michael]

looking forward to your photo techno!!

 

 

michael

[Techno_mike-migration]

Here is the Heritage image of the '58 I purchased (attached). I'll follow-up in the next week or two with my pics.

[Techno_mike-migration]

Attached are the two very nice NGC Frankins I picked up through the Signature Auction and Bullet Auction associated with the FUN show. Both are MS67's with great color!

 

[michael]