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What is your Opinion on “Date Grading”?

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By “date grading” I mean adjusting your grade opinion (higher or lower) based on a specific date/s in a coin series.

 

For example, I collect Roosevelt dimes, and many 1982- and 1983-dated coins have strike issues. So when I'm grading 1982/83 dimes, I will be a little more forgiving with my grade than I would be with a 2014 Roosevelt.

 

Another example...

 

I don't collect Peace Dollars, but I believe that many 1921-dated coins are noted for having weaker strikes. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

Do you ever consider a coin's date and associated noted issues when graded?

 

Is there a different term (that's not “date grading”) used to describe adjusting grade opinions based on a specific date/s in a coin series?

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Grading Dates Standards:

 

Good – You just want to be friends.

Fine – Date was okay, but you're definitely not buying a ring.

Extra Fine – “Eh”

About Uncirculated – She's nice, but you still want to keep your options open.

Uncirculated – You definitely want a second date.

Gem Uncirculated – You call her the very next day.

MS 70 – You propose marriage.

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Smitty, you're asking a question that has more nuances than you think. Should coins from mints known for their weak strikes get breaks in the grade? Ah, market grading, that's money grading, and that means those questions are anybody's call. Condition-wise, strike was never a criteria in the grade, so that resolves that issue, if you're strictly condition-grading (...although, ANA has acknowledged in Red Books going back to the middle of the last Century, sharper strikes, while irrelevant to the condition-grade, do command higher prices).

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We didn't have Twitter, Facebook or any of those internet gossip sites when I was a kid. The only way you graded a date was to ask her out again or look for someone else.

 

Chris

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When an entire series is poorly or when there are poorly made coins for a period of time within a series, grading does become more complicated. Weakly struck coins require graders to consider surfaces in addition to the amount of detail on the coin. This involves looking for the amount of mint luster on Mint State and AU coins, and judging the overall look of the surfaces in addition to the design details on circulated pieces.

 

After awhile a talented grader gets to know how the surfaces of an EF, VF, Fine or Good or VG generally look, in addition to amount of deal remaining the piece. This is a subtle thing to notice, but for observant people it sinks in after a while, sometimes a long while. For some people it never sinks in.

 

One thing I will say unequivocally. It is virtually impossible for a poorly made coin to get a grade like MS-66, and grades like MS-67 and higher are totally out of the question. A super high grade coin only happens where EVERYTHING comes to together, from the time the dies and planchets are made, though the time the coin is struck and ending with the state of preservation. This means that some coins NEVER existed in very high grades because none of them made well enough to qualify for them.

 

This also goes for the lower grades. AU coins, even if they are an exceptional grade for a given date and mint mark combination, do not become Mint State coins just because a particular is always found poorly struck. They are AU coins, and that's it.

 

The points covered in paragraph one are the hardest part, and they are something that could hardly be explained in a book length post. It's a matter of years of experience and a good eye.

 

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We didn't have Twitter, Facebook or any of those internet gossip sites when I was a kid. The only way you graded a date was to ask her out again or look for someone else.

 

Chris

Back then you couldn't make out on the first date. It was a rule. The second date, that's different, they rationalized they know you better. What girl knows a guy better just because it's a second date? All they know is, you made two trips. You made an investment on the first date, and now you're coming back to collect.

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This is an interesting question. "My Series" is Peace dollars and, like many others, it's full nuances.

 

Philadelphia issues in common dates are easy to find at MS66. Certain San Fransisco issues are so poorly struck that MS65 coins are significant condition rarities.

 

Somewhat contrary to Bill's comments above (which I otherwise agree with), poorly-struck 1921 Peace dollars can be found in MS66 holders from both big TPGs. Some even have green beans. Perfectly-struck 1921 Peace dollars are virtually non-existent, and otherwise nice examples are sometimes given a free pass. A similarly-struck 1922-P coin would never make the same grade.

 

The 1925-S in unknown finer than MS65. I sometimes wonder if this is because the coins actually don't come nice enough to justify a higher grade, or if an MS65 top-pop grade is something that was established long ago and simply carried forward by tradition. These days, a grader would be stretching his neck out there a bit to holder one at MS66. The owners of the MS65s would suddenly be justifiably grumpy.

 

Collectively, there are loads of MS67 Peace dollars, yet the TPGs have been incredibly reluctant to assign any MS67+ grades. Certainly some of them need to be in the top 20% of their class, no? PCGS did finally make one 1925-P 67+ a few months ago. FWIW, they've certified two coins at the MS68 level.

 

With Peace dollars, it's a short series (24 coins) and each issue has its own personality. Many of them are distinct enough to be identified without looking at the date or MM. I tend to think each issue is graded against other examples of the same issue as opposed to the strict application of a universal grading standard. At the same time, I don't think every grader is fully aware of the nuances of every single series....... something that might explain the occasional random appearance of a new "finest-known" when the coin had actually been kicking around for years......

 

..... random thoughts.

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