Be warned APMEX not honest posted by #

[CSJournals-migration]

I've been happy with bullion until...

 

...Friday I received a 2014 1 oz. Platinum American Eagle MS-70 ER. I didn't believe this coin existed; even went as far as to question Ali here at NGC. She assured me it did exist in a MS. Since they haven't been made since 2009 I had my doubts. I called APMEX and inquired about their web site stating its from the West Point mint and has a W mint mark. So I ordered one.

 

Well the business strike doesn't come with a W mint mark as APMEX web states in two different places. I should have listen to Ali who said all she knew for sure that there was going to be a 2014 1oz APE in mint state. Well after emailing Monday after receiving the coin NO ONE replied. So, Tuesday I emailed again; politely. Again no answer. Wednesday I wasn't so nice in my email but did get a reply stating they did not see any previous emails from me. I then forwarded copies of the two previous emails I had sent and they alledgedly never received.

 

Low and behold they found the emails explaining that the coin I bought and that they continue to sell has more than a typo; it's just plain false.

 

This evening a customer representative responded with and I quote, please be advised that although the coins are minted at West Point Mint, unless otherwise stated, the coin will only have the W mint mark. He went on to say they apologize of this was not properly communicated in the product description on the web site.

 

It still shows under product description / product specification Mint Mark W-West Point. This is beyond misleading; it's false advertising. I don't care where it was minted it should not state anywhere that the mint mark is a W. Even after my explaining their mistake they're still selling it as a W-West Point coin. Maybe they should start selling on TV.

 

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[RWB]

Were you expecting a coin with a "W" mintmark?

 

Well, hopefully you will get it sorted out.

 

[yonico]

Don't know about this specific issue but they should take responsibility and take care of the issue - obviously they're in error.

 

I'm not a big fan - I had a problem with APMEX last year and I refuse to buy from them since.

I made a quite large bullion from them and was given a total. I provided my CC information and then when checking my CC invoice, they charged a different amount to it (a lot higher, obviously). When I called, they said the total price I was given did not include NY sales tax. That alone was not right to do, when I ask for a TOTAL I expect them to tell me what the TOTAL price is.

 

But even worse, I got the package from them, it was shipped from Oklahoma! I called them and found out that their warehouse is in OK, and all their packages ship from there! Why charge almost 9% NY sales tax??

 

They said the company ships everything from OK, but since they also had a small office in NY, they charge NY residents sales tax. I don't know if that's normal, or legal, but they were very shady and impolite on the phone. Basically told me "you don't like it, send it back". Which I did of course.

8.875% makes a huge difference when you buy bullion, they should let people know what they're going to charge before they hit your credit card.

 

Well, from then on, its MCM for me when I buy bullion.

 

[wdrob]

They said the company ships everything from OK, but since they also had a small office in NY, they charge NY residents sales tax. I don't know if that's normal, or legal

 

Yes that is the law. They were correct on that.

 

 

[yonico]

They said the company ships everything from OK, but since they also had a small office in NY, they charge NY residents sales tax. I don't know if that's normal, or legal

 

Yes that is the law. They were correct on that.

 

 

Thanks. TBH, I've never heard of anything like it before. Who cares if they have a small office here, they do all sales and shipping from Oklahoma.

 

But in any case, I would have liked to know what I'm being charged and then decide if I want it or not. I was quoted $12,250 + shipping over the phone (no mention of

Any sales tax even after my info was given to them), and then charged almost $14,000.

 

[wdrob]

They said the company ships everything from OK, but since they also had a small office in NY, they charge NY residents sales tax. I don't know if that's normal, or legal

 

Yes that is the law. They were correct on that.

 

 

Thanks. TBH, I've never heard of anything like it before. Who cares if they have a small office here, they do all sales and shipping from Oklahoma.

 

But in any case, I would have liked to know what I'm being charged and then decide if I want it or not. I was quoted $12,250 + shipping over the phone (no mention of

Any sales tax even after my info was given to them), and then charged almost $14,000.

 

Absolutely agree. Total is Total - period. No ambiguity should enter into that definition, imo.

 

I do not recall ever having any problems with APMEX but I do not deal in the quantities some do, and I find the prices at another competitor (previously mentioned) to generally be better.

 

 

[Ultra Cameo Collection]

Companies are required to charge tax when they have any "presence" in that state.

 

Here in Ohio there are a couple dealers that have a form you can fill out that basically states you are buying this with the intention of resale at some point in the future. I believe this relinquishes them of tax liability.

 

Then again in Ohio we also have a form you must sign when buying fireworks stating you will use them outside of Ohio.

 

30 round magazines and open carry also.

 

So in summary you need to move to Ohio.

 

Buyer Beware is still alive and well today. Sucks to see anyone get deceived.

 

 

 

 

[yonico]

Ok I see.. Well their fault or not, they lost my business in any case (since I can buy bullion from other companies that DON'T have an office in NY, and save 9%).

Thanks for clearing it up!

 

Moving to ohio I don't know

[jpcienkus]

Yonico,

 

I have made many purchases from APMEX. I've never been charged the 9% sales tax. I just double checked my most recent order and there was no sale tax charged. Your situation is odd. I know their prices are a little higher, but based on my experiences with them in the past, I didn't mind paying a little premium.

 

I recently had a small problem with one of the coins. A simple phone call to them and they issued me a return authorization, free shipping label and a replacement.

 

I've also purchased from MCM and JM Bullion without any issues either.

 

Sorry to hear about your issue with APMEX. Like I said, I've always had a positive experience with them.

 

Joe

[wdrob]

I have made many purchases from APMEX. I've never been charged the 9% sales tax. I just double checked my most recent order and there was no sale tax charged. Your situation is odd.

 

Joe, if my memory serves me correct I believe I remember you saying you lived in a state a little further west of New York. I do not think APMEX has a store or business presence in your state. Maybe you have moved to New York since that PM.

 

Now Walmart does, in every state in the country. That is why you have to pay sales tax to them no matter where you live. Home Depot, Lowes, etc... all the same. If they have a business presence in that state then they are supposed to collect sales tax on Internet purchases.

 

Based on that above, I don't find Yonico's situation odd at all.

 

 

[#]

I totally agree about business presence in the state but here in Texas even though we have a Sams Club, like Cosco if we order online and they ship it from another state we don't pay any sales tax.

On my problem with APMEX my father in law cancelled his account which was much larger than mine so even if they reach out to me or my in laws they can bite me! Their site still shows the APE with a description of a W mint Mark; CROOKS!

[wdrob]

Was not aware of that with Sams Club.

 

David I hope you don't take this the wrong way but I am kind of curious as to what difference it makes whether there is no MM or a 'W'? Were you trying to corner the market on West Point ASE's with a Monster Box?

 

Edited since I just noticed you were buying Platinum. No monster box there but that is a great amount of Platinum.

 

 

[jpcienkus]

You're right Bill. I don't live in NY. I wasn't aware Yonico was a resident of the state. In that case, it really sucks that he gets charged the sales tax because of a tiny office. When will the politicians realize that taxing it's citizens incessantly only leads to economic issues.

[#]

Was not aware of that with Sams Club.

 

David I hope you don't take this the wrong way but I am kind of curious as to what difference it makes whether there is no MM or a 'W'?

 

No problem Bill as I'm frequently wrong. As in the case with Ali here at NGC; I didn't believe the US Mint was going to make a business strike of the American Platinum Eagle, just Proofs. When Ali told me the mint was going to make Mint State and APMEX listed in their description twice then mentioned it verifying the W over the phone I thought oh, well they must be burnished or something special as I hadn't seen any anywhere. I wouldn't have paid a premium for just plain old platinum bullion. FYI, it still shows Mint Mark - W on their site. Clearly they don't care.

 

As for Sams Club, my son buys a lot of baby formula and baby items online at SAMs Club just to save on the 8.25% tax and free shipping. I didn't believe it at first either but maybe because they ship it from another state?

 

David

[coinman1794]

I've been happy with bullion until...

 

...Friday I received a 2014 1 oz. Platinum American Eagle MS-70 ER. I didn't believe this coin existed; even went as far as to question Ali here at NGC. She assured me it did exist in a MS. Since they haven't been made since 2009 I had my doubts. I called APMEX and inquired about their web site stating its from the West Point mint and has a W mint mark. So I ordered one.

 

Well the business strike doesn't come with a W mint mark as APMEX web states in two different places. I should have listen to Ali who said all she knew for sure that there was going to be a 2014 1oz APE in mint state. Well after emailing Monday after receiving the coin NO ONE replied. So, Tuesday I emailed again; politely. Again no answer. Wednesday I wasn't so nice in my email but did get a reply stating they did not see any previous emails from me. I then forwarded copies of the two previous emails I had sent and they alledgedly never received.

 

Low and behold they found the emails explaining that the coin I bought and that they continue to sell has more than a typo; it's just plain false.

 

This evening a customer representative responded with and I quote, please be advised that although the coins are minted at West Point Mint, unless otherwise stated, the coin will only have the W mint mark. He went on to say they apologize of this was not properly communicated in the product description on the web site.

 

It still shows under product description / product specification Mint Mark W-West Point. This is beyond misleading; it's false advertising. I don't care where it was minted it should not state anywhere that the mint mark is a W. Even after my explaining their mistake they're still selling it as a W-West Point coin. Maybe they should start selling on TV.

 

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I have nothing good or bad to say about APMEX. It is the US mint and its branches that might be to blame for some of this confusion. These coins are minted at West Point, as most of the workhorse bullion issues now are, but standard bullion issues from West Point no longer carry a mint mark. They could have explained that better on their website, though I have not seen their description. I am confused, slightly. If it does not matter to you where these were minted, then what is the issue?

[#]

I am confused, slightly. If it does not matter to you where these were minted, then what is the issue?

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post its the fact that they said it has a W mint mark. We all know bullion is just bullion and the price is dictated by the spot price of precious metals but for some reason when you sell bullion with a W mint mark people charge and people pay more for it. I would have been happy with an ounce of platinum without a mint mark just for the sake of buying more as the metals dropped. But this slabbed bullion coin was priced at a significant premium stating it had a W mint mark making me believe it was burnished or something special that historically brings more money from collectors of American Eagle Coins not numismatists. It is really very simple; don't describe a Mercedes then put a Kia brand plate on it.

David

[Electric Peak]

And a business *can* charge sales tax even if it does not have a physical presence in your state. LL Bean closed their only store in MD a couple years ago. After that, I ordered something on-line and was charged sales tax. I inquired about it. The response is on my office door. It says, in part,"Any company can voluntarily collect and remit sales tax in any state, whether or not they have a physical presence in that state. This is often viewed as a service to the customer." Gotta love that last sentence!

[Nutmeg Coin]

Apmex is the only numismatic company to ever ask for my SS#. Not that it really matters, as anyone who works in all their tax deductions can minimize their tax bite. But there are other reasons for such personal information beyond reports to the government like the ubiquitous problem in the numismatic world of theft. A guy walked into a coin show last weekend with a number of certified $20 gold coins, and wanted cash for tax reasons. I did not do the deal. He sold at discount, I told him to sell them to Rarcoa for top wholesale with a quick ach. But he was worried about the tax consequences so did a cash deal with an NY dealer.

 

My experience with Apmex has been good; they will ach into your bank account quickly. They do so many transactions there are bound to be unhappy customers once in a while.

[DCZAN]

I have had several bad experiences with APMEX mostly receiving graded coins with heavy spotting and toning that wasn't reflected in the description or pictures. I've since stop dealing with them and make most of my purchases from MCM (they have always been a reliable and honest seller that ships quickly).

[#]

Apmex is the only numismatic company to ever ask for my SS#.

 

My experience with Apmex has been good; they will ach into your bank account quickly. They do so many transactions there are bound to be unhappy customers once in a while.

 

First my problem with APMEX is not that of an unhappy customer; its that of FRAUD. They know the $100 platinum eagle was minted in West Point and that it does not have a W mint mark but continue to list in their description that it indeed has a W mint mark even after being informed. They do understand this because their silver Eagles are described as minted at West Point but in the detailed description states clearly that there's NOT a MM at all.

 

Second, I've never been asked by a coin dealer, bullion dealer either online or at a major show for my SS#. I have never even been asked for SS# at any major auction house. If I pay cash, certified funds or they keep the items until my funds clear IT'S NOT THEIR BUSINESS.

 

Finally, in Texas no one collects sales tax on rare coins, bullion or combination of on purchases over $1000.00 per state law.

[#]

I have had several bad experiences with APMEX mostly receiving graded coins with heavy spotting and toning that wasn't reflected in the description or pictures. I've since stop dealing with them and make most of my purchases from MCM (they have always been a reliable and honest seller that ships quickly).

 

I thought I had a problem with MCM a few years ago and foolishly fired off a nasty email. Later I found out I was 100% wrong so I sent an email apologizing and telling them how ashamed I was at my behavior. John Maben himself emailed me telling me not to be so hard on myself things like that happen. I believe that's called integrity and a descent man. Shame on me for trying APMEX.

[Beijim]

I don't recall seeing a larger mountain inflated from a smaller mole hill. Probably have, just don't remember.

 

If this really is the biggest problem you face, you should be thankful 24/7/36[5|6]. You're luckier than 99.9% of the rest of us.

 

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

I honestly don't see APMEX intentionally trying to deceive customers like that. It doesn't seem like it would be worth it. For a smaller individual, sure. But APMEX already has a name in the market. Trying to trick a few people out of a couple thousand bucks doesn't seem worth ruining their name over.

 

But at the same time, I'm not going to try to justify the negligence of it. As a customer, you should expect to be purchasing the exact item listed. Not close...exact.

[newprepper]

The people who do the Sales and advertising are probably not collectors. BUT........the person who proofs the ads should know better. Somebody up the line should have some knowledge of coins, just not the people who do the actual work

[newprepper]

The people who do the Sales and advertising are probably not collectors. BUT........the person who proofs the ads should know better. Somebody up the line should have some knowledge of coins, just not the people who do the actual work

[Mariner67]

I honestly don't see APMEX intentionally trying to deceive customers like that. It doesn't seem like it would be worth it. For a smaller individual, sure. But APMEX already has a name in the market. Trying to trick a few people out of a couple thousand bucks doesn't seem worth ruining their name over.

 

But at the same time, I'm not going to try to justify the negligence of it. As a customer, you should expect to be purchasing the exact item listed. Not close...exact.

 

APMEX did previously intentionally deceive customers when the 5 oz ATBs came out. Remember the "secretly coded" boxes of 5 when they sent new customers picked over lower quality coins and saved the best ones for big buck established customers. It was exposed and many swore off them after that.

[Nutmeg Coin]

I would say that Apmex is reliable and fair on bullion buying and selling; numismatics are a tougher learning curve, I'm not sure that they have competent numismatists or industry experts on staff. I ordered an 1866 $20 gold piece from Apmex that was uncertified and described as choice XF. On posting images on the NGC forum the assessment was that it was a scrubbed coin, probably more of a VF. When asked on the piece they said they had paid very strong money for it, so I'm not sure they do due diligence on all the material they get. But their buy/sell spreads are pretty wide. Just one item I checked out, the 1993 Philadelphia set has a buy price of $1380: http://www.apmex.com/product/14068/1993-p-5-coin-proof-gold-silver-philadelphia-set-w-box-coa

 

Upstate coin offers $1525 for the same set. As a dealer you look for top offers. With moderns in general there are some pretty strong wholesale buyers out there, I doubt Apmex is the strongest unless they have strong asks for a particular product. My guess is they try to protect themselves from problem sets coming in that are hard to sell at the premium money.

[JZ321]

I think APMEX is way overpriced. Sorry to hear about your bad experience with them. I hope they wouldn't intentionally deceive collectors. I've been buying from Bullion Exchanges (bullionexchanges.com) for a while now, and they seem very knowledgeable, reliable, and consistently the best I can find on price. They obviously carries a lot of bullion, but their numismatic pre-33 gold and silver selection is actually really nice and fairly graded as well.