What gives?

[mikew148]

What AT coin? The Franklin I sold to Kenny? Because I know its in safe hands! The Kennedy? Because at the time I didn't realize it was AT! They grade just fine! Just bought another from him! The Larsons in Salt Lake City! They make some great colors on their coins at stellar prices!

 

Where does the Franklin to Kenny come into this

 

I'm very happy with your recent ability (within the last few months) to distinguish AT from NT.

 

There are way too many good people here, for me to ever have to deal with you

 

Goodbye FREAK!

 

 

Relax my friend! They made a quarter billion other 1964 Kennedys that year!

 

 

I'm not your friend.

 

Actually I've come to dislike you.

 

The amount of coins made has nothing to do with your inability to complete our transaction in a professional manner.

 

 

Right.... My point is you been bombarding my threads now for well over 6 months over a Kennedy that I won't sell to you.... Never asked for a single penny from you for the coin. I simply removed the coin after you ask for it.. So my advice is to either

 

A.) Get over it and pursue one of the other quarter billion made

 

Or

 

B.) Continue to cry about it :-)

 

Sincerely

 

Your friend in coins

 

Dimefreak :-)

 

The problem I had with you from the beginning is, you never contacted me about this transaction.

 

Even after I called you out in another thread. You simply disappeared.

 

It's not that the coin was that special - it was your handling of the entire transaction.

 

Like an ostrich hiding his head in the sand.

 

I can't see it - so it's not happening!

 

[AHFreak]

WOWZERS.... I think someone ran out of medication......

[mikew148]

WOWZERS.... I think someone ran out of medication......

 

What a comment

 

Ever had someone flake on you and then act like you're wrong?

 

It pisses me off.

[AHFreak]

WOWZERS.... I think someone ran out of medication......

 

Ever had someone flake on you and then act like you're wrong?

 

It pisses me off.

 

Well, that's a question for another day.

 

Regardless, I never got the impression you needed medication

[mikew148]

WOWZERS.... I think someone ran out of medication......

 

Ever had someone flake on you and then act like you're wrong?

 

It pisses me off.

 

Well, that's a question for another day.

 

Regardless, I never got the impression you needed medication

 

That was a response on your part

[AHFreak]

WOWZERS.... I think someone ran out of medication......

 

What a comment

 

Ever had someone flake on you and then act like you're wrong?

 

It pisses me off.

 

Just out of curiosity, what gave you the impression I was even referring to you??? Seems odd to me really.

 

 

What Im realizing now is that I should have just kept my mouth shut.

[mikew148]

WOWZERS.... I think someone ran out of medication......

 

What a comment

 

Ever had someone flake on you and then act like you're wrong?

 

It pisses me off.

 

Just out of curiosity, what gave you the impression I was even referring to you??? Seems odd to me really.

 

 

What Im realizing now is that I should have just kept my mouth shut.

 

Because your response was directed towards me.

 

The reply button works very well when used properly. It helps to clarify where your statement is directed.

 

Don't send me any more PM's - Post your condescending messages here - I'd like for this conversation to be in the open.

[Jimmy Linguini]

The coin portion is the best part of this chat room

[TonerGuy]

Sharp crowd here! You guys had me pinned from the get go! Or maybe just maybe even a 7 year old can tell the toning is ridiculous! ! Bravo by the powers that be ATS!

 

Wow... thats bad. Thats almost as bad as that wildly toned ASE that PCGS graded a few years ago that was posted here. I wish I still had the photo to add to this thread.

 

I hear people talk about NGC vs. PCGS grading all of the time. I dont know much about whether a NGC MS66 is a PCGS MS65 but what I do know is toning... and NCG is much tougher on toning.

 

[dimefreak]

Funny Tonerguy! I thought that ASE as well! here is a pic of it I saved!

 

[jom]

It saddends me that coins like this get in a holder! It has no place in a graded holder! I'm tired of stock holders, and large corps keeping a certain company in the lime light! The corruption, grading , and ridiculous power trip need to come to an end! If I posted it and said gee this shouldn't be in a holder most here would have just agreed with PCGS! .....Graded coins right now are horrible values IMO and I can't wait until the day people start collecting again!

 

Why does it sadden you that coins YOU think shouldn't be in a holder? If you have no interest in the coin itself why not just "move on"?

 

If PCGS grades a coin that incorrectly how does that equate to "corruption"?

 

Start collecting again? What does that mean exactly? Also, how do you determine that "graded" coins are horrible values?

 

Really, I'm curious about your answers....

 

Thanks

 

jom

[AHFreak]

It saddends me that coins like this get in a holder! It has no place in a graded holder! I'm tired of stock holders, and large corps keeping a certain company in the lime light! The corruption, grading , and ridiculous power trip need to come to an end! If I posted it and said gee this shouldn't be in a holder most here would have just agreed with PCGS! .....Graded coins right now are horrible values IMO and I can't wait until the day people start collecting again!

 

Why does it sadden you that coins YOU think shouldn't be in a holder? If you have no interest in the coin itself why not just "move on"?

 

If PCGS grades a coin that incorrectly how does that equate to "corruption"?

 

Start collecting again? What does that mean exactly? Also, how do you determine that "graded" coins are horrible values?

 

Really, I'm curious about your answers....

 

Thanks

 

jom

 

Furthermore Dimefreak, when or how does one become the "authority" on whether or not something is accurately graded... or whether or not something is AT versus NT??? That is what I would like to understand....

 

 

I don't mean to sound offensive, or be rude, I am seriously wondering how that happens and when you get to that point in your mind....

 

 

[dimefreak]

It saddends me that coins like this get in a holder! It has no place in a graded holder! I'm tired of stock holders, and large corps keeping a certain company in the lime light! The corruption, grading , and ridiculous power trip need to come to an end! If I posted it and said gee this shouldn't be in a holder most here would have just agreed with PCGS! .....Graded coins right now are horrible values IMO and I can't wait until the day people start collecting again!

 

Why does it sadden you that coins YOU think shouldn't be in a holder? If you have no interest in the coin itself why not just "move on"?

 

If PCGS grades a coin that incorrectly how does that equate to "corruption"?

 

Start collecting again? What does that mean exactly? Also, how do you determine that "graded" coins are horrible values?

 

Really, I'm curious about your answers....

 

Thanks

 

jom

 

I'm not getting into it! I'm not getting sued! But I can assure that I'm not talking about this coin as corruption. This coin was just dropping the ball! The people pulling strings ATS are using rare classic coins! Not a 1990 Washington quarter! You have a link to store in your SIG right? So do plenty others here right? Everybody wants graded coins! I bet I could sell the coin in the OP for $500! I bust it out and it wouldn't sell for $3! Why is that? Because the TPG's run the hobby! They provide a market! They are the customer and service provider! You pay them some money and return you make more money! Its gross.....stop!

[jom]

Everybody wants graded coins! I bet I could sell the coin in the OP for $500! I bust it out and it wouldn't sell for $3! Why is that? Because the TPG's run the hobby! They provide a market! They are the customer and service provider! You pay them some money and return you make more money! Its gross.....stop!

 

I see. So you would blame the TPGs for grading coins that are only worth $3 that sell for $500 once slabbed?

 

The prices these coins sell for really has nothing to do with the TPGs. It is collectors (or maybe investors) who run the prices up. NOT the TPGs. If you want to blame someone all participants in this market should look in the mirror FIRST.

 

You and I are not forced to pay stupid prices for coins. We do that all by our lonesome....

 

jom

 

PS: There are a LOT of coins like that not just ones that are toned. There are many MS68 modern issues that are dirt cheap compared to an MS70 of the same date, grade and type. Many of not most people can't tell the difference.

 

[MJ]

It saddends me that coins like this get in a holder! It has no place in a graded holder! I'm tired of stock holders, and large corps keeping a certain company in the lime light! The corruption, grading , and ridiculous power trip need to come to an end! If I posted it and said gee this shouldn't be in a holder most here would have just agreed with PCGS! .....Graded coins right now are horrible values IMO and I can't wait until the day people start collecting again!

 

Why does it sadden you that coins YOU think shouldn't be in a holder? If you have no interest in the coin itself why not just "move on"?

 

If PCGS grades a coin that incorrectly how does that equate to "corruption"?

 

Start collecting again? What does that mean exactly? Also, how do you determine that "graded" coins are horrible values?

 

Really, I'm curious about your answers....

 

Thanks

 

jom

 

I'm not getting into it! I'm not getting sued! But I can assure that I'm not talking about this coin as corruption. This coin was just dropping the ball! The people pulling strings ATS are using rare classic coins! Not a 1990 Washington quarter! You have a link to store in your SIG right? So do plenty others here right? Everybody wants graded coins! I bet I could sell the coin in the OP for $500! I bust it out and it wouldn't sell for $3! Why is that? Because the TPG's run the hobby! They provide a market! They are the customer and service provider! You pay them some money and return you make more money! Its gross.....stop!

 

I still wouldn't pay more then $3 for it graded so your stance doesn't resonate with me. I don't follow.

 

MJ

[dimefreak]

Everybody wants graded coins! I bet I could sell the coin in the OP for $500! I bust it out and it wouldn't sell for $3! Why is that? Because the TPG's run the hobby! They provide a market! They are the customer and service provider! You pay them some money and return you make more money! Its gross.....stop!

 

I see. So you would blame the TPGs for grading coins that are only worth $3 that sell for $500 once slabbed?

 

The prices these coins sell for really has nothing to do with the TPGs. It is collectors (or maybe investors) who run the prices up. NOT the TPGs. If you want to blame someone all participants in this market should look in the mirror FIRST.

 

You and I are not forced to pay stupid prices for coins. We do that all by our lonesome....

 

jom

 

PS: There are a LOT of coins like that not just ones that are toned. There are many MS68 modern issues that are dirt cheap compared to an MS70 of the same date, grade and type. Many of not most people can't tell the difference.

 

Your right ,which is why I post this stuff for consumers here to see! Believe it or not I'm just trying to help people here!

[dimefreak]

It saddends me that coins like this get in a holder! It has no place in a graded holder! I'm tired of stock holders, and large corps keeping a certain company in the lime light! The corruption, grading , and ridiculous power trip need to come to an end! If I posted it and said gee this shouldn't be in a holder most here would have just agreed with PCGS! .....Graded coins right now are horrible values IMO and I can't wait until the day people start collecting again!

 

Why does it sadden you that coins YOU think shouldn't be in a holder? If you have no interest in the coin itself why not just "move on"?

 

If PCGS grades a coin that incorrectly how does that equate to "corruption"?

 

Start collecting again? What does that mean exactly? Also, how do you determine that "graded" coins are horrible values?

 

Really, I'm curious about your answers....

 

Thanks

 

jom

 

I'm not getting into it! I'm not getting sued! But I can assure that I'm not talking about this coin as corruption. This coin was just dropping the ball! The people pulling strings ATS are using rare classic coins! Not a 1990 Washington quarter! You have a link to store in your SIG right? So do plenty others here right? Everybody wants graded coins! I bet I could sell the coin in the OP for $500! I bust it out and it wouldn't sell for $3! Why is that? Because the TPG's run the hobby! They provide a market! They are the customer and service provider! You pay them some money and return you make more money! Its gross.....stop!

 

I still wouldn't pay more then $3 for it graded so your stance doesn't resonate with me. I don't follow.

 

MJ

 

Well its not for sale! But if it was I consider myself lucky that your not the only consumer :-)

 

PS just an couple months until our black Friday bistro in the cafe! Always good times !

[RWB]

NGC, PCGS and ANACS are authentication companies.Their expertise is an assurance that the coin in a holder sealed by them is authentic and unaltered. Mistakes occasionally occur, and all three companies will correct their mistakes.

 

 

 

 

[dimefreak]

Yes wouldn't it be great if they graded genuine and non genuine? Leave the rest to collectors? BTW this coins getting a presidential review.... I expect nothing to be done about it!

[RWB]

"Yes wouldn't it be great if they graded genuine and non genuine?"

 

Actually, they do.

 

If a coin is genuine and unaltered, it typically is put into a plastic holder. If it is false or altered it is not encapsulated. All the rest is just an opinion and comes with a wide range of variables.

 

Sometimes people send in altered pieces multiple times in hopes of sliding it through, and sometimes it works. But it is not the normal and usual business process.

[19Lyds]

Funny Tonerguy! I thought that ASE as well! here is a pic of it I saved!

 

Hmmm. ]I'd always thought it was this one??

 

 

Whatever.

 

Everybody knows that they don't get it right 100% of the time regardless of which company is used.

 

Which is why folks continually resubmit coins AND which is why "some" TPG's, have a "reconsideration" service.

[19Lyds]

Everybody wants graded coins! I bet I could sell the coin in the OP for $500! I bust it out and it wouldn't sell for $3! Why is that? Because the TPG's run the hobby! They provide a market! They are the customer and service provider! You pay them some money and return you make more money! Its gross.....stop!

 

I see. So you would blame the TPGs for grading coins that are only worth $3 that sell for $500 once slabbed?

 

The prices these coins sell for really has nothing to do with the TPGs. It is collectors (or maybe investors) who run the prices up. NOT the TPGs. If you want to blame someone all participants in this market should look in the mirror FIRST.

 

You and I are not forced to pay stupid prices for coins. We do that all by our lonesome....

 

jom

 

PS: There are a LOT of coins like that not just ones that are toned. There are many MS68 modern issues that are dirt cheap compared to an MS70 of the same date, grade and type. Many of not most people can't tell the difference.

Try to look at a TPG's assigned grade as more or less an "endorsement" of a coins value "in the current market" which, if you really think about it, is all that it really is.

 

Is it a racket? No, it's a business that has been widely accepted and some folks refuse to understand that just because they see it one way and the TPG's see it another way, then the TPG's must be wrong since, (wink wink), we all know what they are really doing.

 

One coin slams, by unknown folks, on TPG's only hurts the slammer. Since the market disagree's with there credit cards.

 

It's all in the perception or "the market".

 

BTW, my apologies for getting involved with this thread as I thought that it was an honest question.

[newprepper]

Sorry, what was the question again?

[jom]

Try to look at a TPG's assigned grade as more or less an "endorsement" of a coins value "in the current market" which, if you really think about it, is all that it really is.

 

Which is why the issue of NT vs. AT is not really relevant when it comes to the TPGs. It's all about market acceptability. If PCGS wants to put that crazy ASE in a hold that is their choice since they are liable to a certain extent. If the coin turns black in 3 months they'll have a problem. If, on the other hand, the coin never changes in the holder then does it really matter how it got that way? Of course, more than likely it WILL have issues if it was made in a lab but that's been covered.

 

The issue here is what people are willing to pay. And as far as I can tell the TPGs are NOT twisting anyone's arms in these transactions. The real problem (if you can call it a problem) is with the people paying these amounts.

 

jom

 

 

[newprepper]

You know, the more I think about it, the TPG's should simply grade a modern coin on it's technical merits. That way you take the coloration (is that a word?)out of the equation. Or maybe a disclaimer for wild toning. Then they don't have to make a judgment on NT/AT. Because really, there is a market for those coins, or Shane would not be doing what he does, really what most collectors look for is the highest grade their wallet (or spouse) will let them get anyways. Some collectors prefer white, others want toned. In the end i's all about what the buyer wants anyway, why do we continue to rain on their parade anyway. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but their is no reason to continually denigrate these coins and the people that buy or sell them. The market will decide what they are worth. That is the beauty of our capitalistic system.

"Caveat Emptor"

[TonerGuy]

To clarify and so that I clearly understand what seems to be the consensus of most of the responses to this thread are... please let me paraphrase...

 

Who cares if PCGS (or NGC) get the question of authentic toning correct or not. Who cares if they slab blatantly AT coins, and really its all just the buyers of these types of coins fault, not the TPGS for grading them.

 

Does that seem to sum up the thoughts of Jom, 19Lyds, newprepper and AHFreak ?

 

I just want to make sure I have an accurate understanding. Thank you.

[TonerGuy]

BTW - yes 19Lyds - that was the ASE I was referring to. Thank you for posting it.

[newprepper]

I didn't say nobody cares, I simply presented an alternate opinion, judging from the amount of panties that get in a bunch, many do care, I simply stated that the market is changing, does not make it right or wrong. I myself don't care if somebody wants to buy a coin that has been manufactured, nor do I care if the TPG's want to slab them. I wouldn't buy one myself, but I'm not going to stop somebody from collecting them if they want.

 

I guess that by the opinions stated against the obvious AT, then dipping a coin is the same thing because you are now changing the natural appearance of a coin.

 

There are many things in life that I don't agree with, but I don't let that color my thinking that because I don't like it then nobody should like it. And I don't (for the most part) try to force my way of living on others.

To each his own

 

 

[newprepper]

Funny Tonerguy! I thought that ASE as well! here is a pic of it I saved!

 

Hmmm. ]I'd always thought it was this one??

 

 

Whatever.

 

Everybody knows that they don't get it right 100% of the time regardless of which company is used.

 

Which is why folks continually resubmit coins AND which is why "some" TPG's, have a "reconsideration" service.

 

The amazing part of the coin on the bottom is that it was originally graded an MS68 by a questionable company as questionable toning, yet when resubmitted the grade improved and it was authenticated by a top tier grading company

[jom]

I didn't say nobody cares, I simply presented an alternate opinion, judging from the amount of panties that get in a bunch, many do care, I simply stated that the market is changing, does not make it right or wrong. I myself don't care if somebody wants to buy a coin that has been manufactured, nor do I care if the TPG's want to slab them. I wouldn't buy one myself, but I'm not going to stop somebody from collecting them if they want.

 

I guess that by the opinions stated against the obvious AT, then dipping a coin is the same thing because you are now changing the natural appearance of a coin.

 

There are many things in life that I don't agree with, but I don't let that color my thinking that because I don't like it then nobody should like it. And I don't (for the most part) try to force my way of living on others.

To each his own

 

 

In response to Toner Guy: This pretty much sums it up for me as Newprepper said it better than I could.

 

About this coin above that was rejected by PCI and PCGS passed: That was probably just a mistake by PCGS. I'd bet if you cracked that out now they'd reject it. That wouldn't be the first mistake they've made nor the last. Same with NGC. It happens.

 

jom