How much should die abrasion affect grade?

[DonHeath]

I'm doing my afternoon browsing, and found a coin on Teletrade that begs a question. Can a coin struck from a fatigued die grade supergem? I always assumed obvious die fatigue held a coin to 5 or lower. The coin is fairly clean, but has little breast detail, flow lines around the eagle in the field, and a very mushy look.

 

1969-D Washington NGC-MS67 on Teletrade

[TomB]

I agree with you that a coin with die fatigue should have its grade limited, however, I have seen supergem graded coins in all the major holders that have had obvious die fatigue. It seems to me that there is not a consistent policy at the TPGs regarding this issue.

[Hoot]

I agree with you that a coin with die fatigue should have its grade limited, however, I have seen supergem graded coins in all the major holders that have had obvious die fatigue. It seems to me that there is not a consistent policy at the TPGs regarding this issue.

 

Ditto.

 

Hoot

[Wihlborg]

 

Quote:

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I agree with you that a coin with die fatigue should have its grade limited, however, I have seen supergem graded coins in all the major holders that have had obvious die fatigue. It seems to me that there is not a consistent policy at the TPGs regarding this issue.

 

 

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Ditto.

 

Hoot

 

 

Same here. I’ve seen many coins, especially nickels, graded as high as MS-67 with evidence of die fatigue. I always figured that the grading companies just think of evidence of die fatigue on a coin to be part of the normal minting process, and not post minting damage, so they don’t factor it into the grade.

 

John

[jom]

It seems to me that there is not a consistent policy at the TPGs regarding this issue.

 

It seems to me that there is not a consistant policy at the TPG's regarding abrations.

 

It seems to me that there is not a consistant policy at the TPG's regarding luster.

 

It seems to me that there is not a consistant policy at the TPG's regarding color ie NT vs AT.

 

It seems to me that there is not a consistant policy at the TPG's regarding wear vs rub.

 

etc etc

 

Which begs the question: Is there a CONSISTANT policy about anything at the TPG's?

 

jom

[TomB]

Is there a CONSISTANT policy about anything at the TPG's?

 

 

They will gladly take your money.

[Wihlborg]

 

John

[jom]

They will gladly take your money.

 

 

jom

[DonHeath]

 

It's like giving blood. We volunteer, and call them vampires.

[gmarguli]

I have to say, the coin doesn't look that bad to me. I've seen & made much worse in MS67 (and the occasional MS68 clad coin) at PCGS. Try finding some of these well struck, from nice dies, and mark free. They can be extremely rare.

[michael]

i have seen many many threads on ngc and pcgs boards on coins that have problems that are in high grade holders

 

and the only consistant thing is that most all of them have been in teletrade auctions

 

michael

[DonHeath]

Greg, I agree. I'm not meaning to rag on NGC. I really think it gets overlooked at all the services. There are some nice 69's around though, mostly mint set coins. The first pic below is a mint set roll of 69's I've had for awhile that produced a few. The superstars are gone, but there are a few 66's in the bunch. The coin I highlighted has a very clean obverse and a sharp reverse, with very clean wing detail, fair feathers, and no die fatigue evident around the eagle. The reverse has a little too much chatter to get into an expensive holder, but I didn't look too long for the example.

 

Michael, I think this is the one area in which the modern collector has a distinct advantage over the classic collector. We get to look at bunches at a time. I wish I could examine a group of Chain cents sometime.

 

[Leothelion]

Try finding some of these well struck, from nice dies, and mark free. They can be extremely rare.

 

And the sad truth is, there are coins of high quality that should not be catagoralized along with junk coins that have been struck with fatigue or worn out dies.

The purpose of the TGS gets lost with these pop reports they display when

grading standards are not consistant.

The TGS have been a waste of everyone's trust, time and money!

Each series needs a club and each club needs to set forth a set of grading guidelines for the TGS's to follow. And the TGS's need to honor those guidelines and the clubs need to inforce them! Coin submissions from members need to go through these clubs before the TGSs can grade them! A special bar code needs to be used to show the connection and collaboration between the collectors, clubs and TGS's!

This would be one of the ways technical graded coins could be separated from market graded coins! This would also make both the dedicated coin collectors and stockholders happy! A much needed and more accurate population report would develope and place true values on collector's coins!

 

But of course, if this should ever happen then small change folks like me would never be able to compete for the greatest coins!

 

Leo