Doesn't anyone know what OMM-4 means?

[BankNote1]

I posted this before but I received no answer.

I picked up an ANACS graded Buffalo with 1938-D MS66 OMM-4 on the holder. The mint mark looks to me to be some sort of RPM but it doesn't look like either my D/D or my two D/S RPMs.

Thanks...

[kryptonitecomics]

OMM stands for Over Mint Mark which I am sure you already knew. The 4 is just the variety number...which could denote the die stage for that particular OMM. I can't help you with any specifics to the attribution though as I am unfamiliar with that particular coin and it's variety's.

 

I would suggest you search the Heritage Archives to see if you can find another one. If you are not registered with Heritage let me know and I will check the auction archives for you.

[BankNote1]

Over Mint Mark! I thought the MM meant mint mark I didn't know that the "O" meant over!?! I am familar with Re-Punched Mint Mark "RPM"

Here is another question. What is the difference in RPM and OMM? I know that RPM-2 is a D/D(I think) and RPM-3 is D/S 1938-D Buffalo.

If you read my Sig. line you will see that I can't go to the Heritage site. Greg Rohan personally banned me from ever buying , bidding, and etc. from Heritage CAA!

I am not worried about value I am just trying to find out what the heck I have.

Thanks for the help though.

[wingedliberty-migration]

An RPM is a repunched mint mark where the mint mark is from the same branch mint, ie D/D

An OMM is a repunched mint mark where there are at least two different mint marks involved, but from different mints., ie D/S. OMM stands for Over mint mark.

[BankNote1]

Thanks Winged Liberty! D/D is a RPM while D/S is a OMM! Great I had my brain turned around. That means that my OMM-4 1938-D is a D/S of some type then!?

I got a nice coin then and I paid less than I did for my 1938-D/S in my registry set!

I see said the blind man!!!!!

[Merc]

Winged Mercury told you right.

 

I also have a OMM4 1938-d Bufalo in an ANACS holder. It is the D over S. You have a nice looking one. Mine is only in a 64 holder.

[BankNote1]

Thanks Merc!

I had some confusion on the difference of RPM and OMM. I had a friend dealer send me a sheet of the different RPM's for the 1938-D. I looked thru all my 1938 nickels and I had a RPM-1 and also a RPM-3. Neither D/D or RPM# is marked on the NGC holders! I have an anacs 1938-D that is marked RPM-3!

Then I picked up the OMM!? I have since learned that the OMM-4 is a D/D/D/D/S!

But as you can see the anacs coin has just 1938-D on the holder.

This is very confusing to me! I have a NGC 1938D/S but I haven't a clue what the OMM# is. It would be nice if NGC would put the RPM or OMM number on the coin holder.

[Merc]

Interesting Banknote,

 

I didn't know the OMM4 was 4 D repunched over an S. I thought it was just one D.

 

I also have a D over D 1938-S in an NGC holder with no mention of the D/D on the holder. It seems the D/D repunch is very common for the 1938-D Buffalo. Breen's book also says the D/D is very common.

[BankNote1]

Merc;

I have a D/D that is marked as well! But no RPM number? The NGC Registry has a spot for the 1938-D/D and gives a higher rating to it than the regular "D". Heck, all of them are common, but to different degrees, I guess!

[wingedliberty-migration]

Oh, before I forget, the ANA money market has some excellent reference material specific to Buffalo die varieties as well as the entire minting process and errors as a whole. www.money.org I would strongly recommend the Error Coin Encyclopedia by Weinberg and Margolis as well as the James Wiles and David Lange references.

[BankNote1]

Wingedlib;

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately the Money Market Store is underconstruction! But buying a book or two makes very good sense. I have my eye on a couple of Buff books right now!!!

[BankNote1]

I did find out from one of the NGC lurkers that NGC and PCGS doesn't recognize the OMM-3 or OMM-4. They do however recognize OMM-1 and OMM-2. The "S" is less noticable in the #3 & #4. ANACS does recognize them but only puts "D" on the holder. I still don't understand why #3 & #4 aren't recognized in some way by NGC even if they are the less popular OMM's?

But now it is as clear as mud as to what RPM's, OMM's etc. that is recognized by the grading services !!!!!

[wingedliberty-migration]

Very good points BankNote1. ,and I agree, but it is also obvious that NGC and ANACS have done substantially more than PCGS in the area of variety attribution.

I don't think its even close, give it time and I think they will start recognizing more ; as the numismatic community demands it.

[moosesr]

Here is a link to the CONECA listings of the coin you have. Maybe this will help http://conecaonline.org/content/buffalorpms.html#_1938-D/S

 

Charlie

[BankNote1]

Thanks for the link! I found it the other day! Now if I could find out why NGC only recognizes OMM-1's?

I picked up the "Treasure Hunting Buffalo Nickels" by Wexler, Pope, and Flynn. The book is a great help! I am now looking for 1938-D/S OMM-2, OMM-3, and OMM-5!

Does anyone know what varietys on the other date Buffalo's NGC recognizes???

[jtwax-migration]

An RPM is a repunched mint mark where the mint mark is from the same branch mint, ie D/D

An OMM is a repunched mint mark where there are at least two different mint marks involved, but from different mints., ie D/S. OMM stands for Over mint mark.

 

How's this...

 

What is an OMM and a RPM?

 

Two exciting varieties to collect. Two formidable tasks that require a steady stream of knowledge, information and most importantly, help. If you decide to explore their potential enjoyment and challenge then here is some information and perhaps a little, help.

 

You should be familiar with the minting process before you dwell to deeply into acquiring RPMs and OMMs. It would be wiser to have more than just a cursory knowledge of the minting process of course, so it is recommend that you try to obtain a book or reference on this subject when you can.

 

RPM and OMM varieties are closely associated with the DIE as part of the overall minting process, so it is also highly recommended that you at least perceive how a die is created and obtain reference materials on this specific subject too. As you read this RPM and OMM information, you will understand the importance of gaining knowledge about the die-making process.

 

At the Mint, a die is created. When the die is almost finished by the mint workers there comes the task of placing the Mint mark on the die before it will be used to produce millions of coins (pre-1990).

 

The Mint employee who puts the Mint mark on the die is commonly referred to as the ENGRAVER. The engraver is sitting behind a counter or table. In front of him or her will be clamps or a device commonly know as a "vice". The die is secured between this clamp or vice so it will not move during the remainder of this process. On the table nearby, the engraver will have a detailed sketch or drawing of the coin design. On this drawing there will be a special highlighted area where the Mint mark is to be placed. By "area" we are referring to a specific designated place on the die that is much wider and longer than the actual size of a Mint mark. There is plenty of room or latitude for the engraver to work within. This latitude explains why you will find a "S" Mint mark say, for 1955 cents, in different locations under the date. For instance, on one die for 1955 S cents the Mint mark was placed just to the right or east under the "9" of the date. On another die the Mint mark is found directly under the "5" of the date. Both Mint marks are within the space or area shown on the sketch, yet in different locations therefore within the Mint "standards".

 

The Mint mark punch is typical of punches you can purchase at any hardware store. At the Mint, the shaft of the punches are color-coded by using different colors of paint so the engraver can easily determine which punch has the Mint mark of "D" or "S" and so on. The shaft of the punch is "V" shaped. This "V" shape grooving on the side of the shaft allows the engraver to readily "feel" that the punch is in the proper upright (or normal) position. At the end of the punch is the letter of the Mint mark in its normal size, shape, etc.

 

The engraver looks at the sketch and the location or area where the Mint mark is to be positioned or placed. Once the engraver is satisfied that the "V" shaped grooves are in his hand correctly and that the tip of the punch that has the Mint mark of "D" or "S", etc., is the proper position, the thick end or top of the punch is hit firmly by a mallet.

 

How hard is the punch hit? However hard the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. How many times is the punch hit? However many times the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. No one really knows the answer to this question. But one thing is for sure - Variety collectors can at least intelligently guess how hard and how many times. That's one of the primary reasons they collect these varieties in the first place!

 

It is generally accepted consensus of RPM and OMM collectors that the engraver strikes the punch with the mallet more than one time in order to assure that the Mint mark is sufficiently imprinted into the die face. However, it is equally noteworthy that many times the Mint mark is placed on the die with only one blow to the mallet in the opinion of some experts.

 

RPMs occur after the engraver strikes the mallet with the first blow to the top of the punch. Remember that the Mint mark punch is hand held and struck by the mallet in this manner. After the first blow, the engraver will check that the Mint mark has been placed inside the designated area that is on the sketch. A careful check will also be made to assure that the Mint mark punched into the die is clearly visible and sufficient enough for the coining process. If, in the judgment of the engraver, another blow with the mallet is required the punch is placed back on top to the original Mint mark and struck again, or again, or again, or .... until the engraver is satisfied. It is also possible that the initial blow from the mallet to strike the Mint mark could cause a "bounce" of the punch, thus creating a doubled, tripled, or more Mint mark punch.

 

The exact repositioning of the tip of the punch on top of the Mint mark already placed on the die requires a steady hand, keen eyesight, and solid nerves. If the Mint mark at the tip of the punch for the second strike is not positioned exactly on top of the existing Mint mark then a RPM has been created. If a third, fourth, fifth, six, etc., blows occur then multiples of the Mint mark can and have appeared. This inaccuracy is the foundation for the joy of searching for RPMs!

 

An OMM is a coin that has two (2) different letters or Mint marks punched into the same die. It is generally accepted by the RPM and OMM variety community that there are two primary reasons why a die would have two distinctly different Mint marks.

 

The first reason is premised upon economic measures instituted by the Mint. A die already has, say, a "D" Mint mark in the die. The die is in such a condition where it can continue to be used to produce coins, so a decision is made by the Mint to use the "D" Mint mark die for "S" Mint mark coins. It is ordered that a "S" be punched on top of the original "D". The "S" Mint mark coins with the "D" underneath are produced and a OMM is created for the collector!

 

The second reason is not associated with Mint policy, practices, or cost-saving efforts, but rather, a unintentional mistake by the engraver. Remember that the punch the engraver used is colored so they would know which punch had a "D", "S" etc. Picture that the engraver has a die which requires a "D" Mint mark. The "S' punch is unintentional picked-up and the blow by the mallet is struck. The engraver is checking this first blow to be assure it is inside the area shown on the sketch. The engraver sees the "S" Mint mark was used and not the "D". An error has occurred. Instead of discarding the die the engraver simply takes the correct "D" Mint mark punch and "covers" his mistake with it via several blows to the mallet. No harm done. The die is usable for its life in the coining press.

 

Conversely, the engraver may not even notice that a "S" has been placed on the die intended for a "D". An interruption, break, lunch, etc., and the engraver returns to the task at hand. Pick-up the colored punch with the "D" Mint mark and strike one or more blows to the mallet without looking at the original or error "S" Mint mark that is showing. The engraver unintentionally made a mistake and never knew it. If the engraver did look and did see the "S" no one but the engraver will ever know.

 

RPMs and OMMs come in many different forms and configurations. No in-depth discussion of these attributes is necessary right now, but for your enjoyment of "the hunt", RPMs and OMMs can be found in a vertical over horizontal position: a vertical over inverted position: on top or under the number (s) of the date: with two totally separated Mint marks: even tilted: and, the overlapping of a Mint mark once or several times in succession.

 

If terms such as "inverted" or "vertical" or "tilted" seem confusing, even contradictory, when thinking of the engraver sitting there at the bench with the punch in hand that is waiting to be struck by the mallet then welcome to the great realm of RPM and OMM collecting! Whatever you do, don't fret over the terms.

 

Lastly, don't forget that since 1990 the Mint mark has been made directly on the die. There will be no true RPMs and OMMs from 1990 to the present. No big deal, though. There are thousands and thousand out there in variety-land just waiting to be collected and discovered... by you!

 

- by George Wilkinson

[spy88]

Jason, simply one of the best compressed explanations of RPM/OMM origins I've had the pleasure to read! Informative and succinct! I'm so glad and thankful we have you to help us with variety knowledge in general and specific knowledge in my favorite series the Jefferson. You are THE MAN!

 

And as a side note, glad you still have time to drop by once in awhile to dispense info! Thought for a time, you had too much on your plate for one guy! And while I'm ...please (again) give me the FS desig for the 45-P I sent you. Can't seem to find it as usual per my messy methods of order. Need it to run the auction for the other 5. Thanks a bunch, Jason!

[jtwax-migration]

Thanks David! The 45-P is RPM-069.