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Trying to find a fair place to buy my coins

17 posts in this topic

I'm in search of the best place to purchase and sell my numismatic and bullion coins. Qualifications, must be honest, reasonably priced, and will not robe me when it's time to sell my coins. Tried EBay, coin shows, and various online auctions. I realize that dealers must make a living but what is fair in terms of profit margins? During my last transaction with a dealer, he got very upset with me when I brought a grey sheet into the meeting. His statement to me was don't expect to get near that amount you see on the sheet. Does a collector have the right to be knowledgable of dealer bid and ask prices?

 

 

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Does a collector have the right to be knowledgable of dealer bid / ask ??? I think no matter who it is, that if they are "smart enough" to be informed/educate themselves/etc.. That they dam sure have "the right"....

 

 

I know some dealers who would act like little babies if a seller brought a current grey sheet with them to try to sell some coins, but I also know that there are many who would show you their own grey sheet if you didn't have your own...

 

The dealer who acted like that is not one to deal with. Keep looking.

 

 

My question is this, if you have greysheet, and you are halfway familiar with coins, and how to value them, why sell to a dealer??? It is too easy to sell directly to the next collector at near retail prices...

 

 

Plus, in my experience, even dealers who are honest, and have no intentions to take advantage of you are not going to want to pay the standard grey sheet bid, because a lot of times it isn't worth their time, as the spread is too low, and they can make better use of their time elsewhere... I think that if you know what the greysheet is, you should sell your coins on ebay for retail, or close to it... Or settle on the fact that a dealer wont buy unless there is enough room to make it worth the time spent....

 

Just my opinion.

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If you have done wholesale business with coin dealers, or owned a coin shop, you know that dealers almost NEVER pay greysheet prices when dealing with other dealers.

 

for example, bulk proof/mint sets, 15% back-of-bid for clad, 5%-8% back for silver

most common date Morgans, walkers, peace AT LEAST 10% behind, sometimes as much as 25%. and that's when they deal with other DEALERS!

 

from the CDN website: The Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet, Bluesheet, Greensheet): CDN publishes wholesale price guides for all U.S. coins (copper, nickel, silver, gold), bullionetc..

 

why are you trying to use a wholesale price guide when you're clearly not buying in wholesale..??

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The best most ethical dealer I ever did business with is unfortunately no longer in the dealing business - he has moved on and now works for HA.

 

He was so ethical that when he bought a coin from me and sold for much more than he anticipated - he split the profits above and beyond what he thought he would make off the coin. I was utterly shocked. We never discussed that. He paid a fair price. Every other dealer would have pocketed the entire profit.

 

Thats the kind of dealer you need to find.

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I would go to some coin shows, there will usually be an honest dealer or two at the bigger ones. Apmex is reliable, but I would only want to buy certified even from them. Are you a member of any coin clubs? I spoke with a collector at the Parsippany show on Sunday who is a member of a half dozen clubs in New Jersey. It is one way to get on the inside track, but be aware of the pitfalls of certain uncertified and even certified material.

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If your interest is to sell I have 3 suggestions.

 

1. On this forum is a Buy/Sell/Trade section where you can deal with members here. Usually you can get prices approaching Grey Sheet Bid. Really special coins get more quite often. There is no Sellers premium.

 

2. The best way (in my opinion) to liquidate coins in your possession is E-Bay. You MUST provide excellent pictures and accurate descriptions. This method is for the long haul. You can expect to get Grey Sheet bid on most issues with the occasional fire sale and surprise windfall. The Sellers fee's amount to about 9% on most sales.

 

3. Selling at shows or to Dealers in their store will require you to start at 10% back of Grey Sheet bid, then be prepared to lower your price to 15% back of bid. At this point you have to dig in your heels as any further cuts would suggest to you and the Dealer that you might as well just sell the coins on E-Bay or in auctions. Fifteen percent is fair, any more and just walk away.

 

Buying is easier. If you have specific needs develop a relationship with a fair minded Dealer. He can assist you with your want list. You can expect to pay Grey Sheet ask or slightly above for nicer examples.

 

If you're just buying things you like auctions offer the best chance for a deal but you must have discipline to get one. Always calculate in any Buyers premium and deduct at least a portion of that from your final bid. Buyers premiums are horses....

 

 

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I'm in search of the best place to purchase and sell my numismatic and bullion coins. Qualifications, must be honest, reasonably priced, and will not robe me when it's time to sell my coins. Tried EBay, coin shows, and various online auctions. I realize that dealers must make a living but what is fair in terms of profit margins? During my last transaction with a dealer, he got very upset with me when I brought a grey sheet into the meeting. His statement to me was don't expect to get near that amount you see on the sheet. Does a collector have the right to be knowledgable of dealer bid and ask prices?

 

 

The best venue for both is going to depend upon what you are trying to buy and sell. You never mentioned a specific coin or series but for US coins, I believe most find one or a few dealers they can work with and supplement this with auctions such as Heritage and Great Collections. (I do not collect any US coins and buy practically every coin either at public auction or Ebay.)

 

When it comes to selling, same principle except that I would add the caveat that if you were trying to sell your coins to a dealer who doesn't really have any regular customers for your coins, you are going to get less.

 

Also, as a general rule, the coins collected by those who post on this forum and PCGS aren't the typical coins most collectors own. They are better quality and somewhat or a lot more expensive.

 

The average collectors material (much of which I assume is not graded by NGC or PCGS) I would expect to sell for a lot less than 25% back of Greysheet though I have no idea how that compares to "retail" for US coins since it is not relevant to me. When I did buy ungraded US coins back in the mid to late 1970's, the dealer offer was in the vicinity of 60% of the Redbook.

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Selling is easy, use the BST here and if you get no action talk to the folks at Great Collections. They make it easy to sell most if not all your coins and will do it for less than you would pay in fees using Ebay or a large auction firm. Plus they do all the photos for the listings, could not be easier.

 

Buying is a different subject, bullion is easier as it sells at or around spot with almost any decent dealer. Collectible coins are tougher and you really want to find a dealer that knows what to look for in a given series/type. If you can be more specific with the type of coins you collect you might get some more dealer specific answers.

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Thank you for all your great feedback. As you could tell by my post I'm fairly new at this. I started in January on 2013 and I'm learning some new almost everyday. I have several registered corrections on NGC. My Morgan Dollar cc collection is ranked 62 and I also collect both pre1933 gold and gold bullion. I'm looking forward to learning how to better manage my collections by entering conversations like this. Thanks again.

Darry

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Darry,

I just had an amazing experience working with Great Collections selling, Ian et al. was honest, up front, and has low overhead which helps sellers and buyers alike. Check out GC for buying, it is only going to get better as more people find out about it.

 

Disclaimer, I do not work for GC nor am I a dealer, just a collector who likes being treated with respect.

 

Best, HT

 

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Thank you for all your great feedback. As you could tell by my post I'm fairly new at this. I started in January on 2013 and I'm learning some new almost everyday. I have several registered corrections on NGC. My Morgan Dollar cc collection is ranked 62 and I also collect both pre1933 gold and gold bullion. I'm looking forward to learning how to better manage my collections by entering conversations like this. Thanks again.

Darry

 

My opinion only but it sounds like you are buying some rather expensive coins for someone who is not very experienced. Have you bought any books on your series or on grading? Buying graded coins is NOT a substitute for either.

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The last B&M Dealer that I went to (incidentally my first as well) told me upfront before I ever brought him one single coin, we would sit down with the greysheet and he paid 10% back of bid.

 

I had a few coins the were exceptional and I was able to get him to easily agree to go a little higher.

 

Point is, I visited his shop, looked around for anything I wanted to buy (actually after looking for a few minutes I said "OK; where do you keep the good stuff".) and then eventually asked him if he was interested in buying any of the collection I had at the time. I had pictures on a website already, and after he went to the site and looked, he said sure - bring them in.

 

I went in with the complete understanding that he was a dealer and HAD to make some money. If I was not willing to give that margin I would have just stayed home. (shrug)

 

 

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I learned very early in my new hobby to do my homework. I have, "The Coin Collectors Survival Manual" by Scott Travers. "A Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars, A complete history and price guide." By David Bowers. "The Official American Numismatic Grading Standards for US Coins". By Kenneth Bressett. " grading Coins By Photographs" by David Bowers. I also subscribe to Coin World, the Coin Dealer newsletter, And NumisMedia Wholesale Market Deal Price Guide. I have both the Red and Blue book. Please let me know what you might suggest.

Thanks Darry

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I would suggest that you keep doing what you are doing. Sounds like you are driven when it comes to coins... I believe you will find it serves you well. Keep reading everything you can get your hands on, and asking as many questions as you can think of around here...

 

This chat here is honestly the best resource to learn about the hobby/biz that I have personally found, some of these members are so insightful that sometimes I wonder if they are really people or if they are a supercomputer that just knows everything about everything concerning coins, programed to help other members when asked.... lol....

 

 

 

My only other personal suggestion, and I would be very surprised if you haven't heard this multiple times by now, would be to get signed up for grading class at summer seminar in Colorado Springs, the ANA does it every year in June, and has for a long time. There are Grading 1 & 2 classes, and all sorts of additional workshops/classes/seminars etc... to expand your mind.

 

(I haven't taken summer seminar grading class yet, I was signed up this year, something came up, so I am taking it in 2015. I have heard over and over again how amazing and great it is though.).

 

Our hosts here, and the guys ATS both offer a grading course a couple/few times per year usually at a larger show. Like a 2 day onsite grading course. I actually took the one PCGS offered at Long Beach in June 2013, it was very informative, and helpful. Definitely has paid off and come in useful. It was $150 for the actual class. My only regret, was that I attended grading 1. They had grading 1 and grading 2. I should have been in two, but couldn't have known that until I showed up. The instructor there was cool enough to send me home with a powerpoint presentation on grading 2 in addition to 1, so I got what I needed from that too... I would say it was all very much worth the price tag of $150...

 

Good luck to you my friend, I am sure we will be seeing/hearing more from you. Keep the questions coming... around here you can actually find/get answers most of the time. versus the alternative of "in person" at a local coin shop. I finally just got to the point where I quit asking random questions in coin shops, because most of the time when I did the whole atmosphere would change, and I would feel like a COP in a crack house trying to get some answers or something.... It was weird to me at the time, mainly because I was very naïve to the business. Looking back on it all, the best was in the very beginning, when I initially started thinking about making a living in the coin business... I thought, maybe I could get a job at a coin shop and learn the business enough to make a living in it.... So with my ingenious plan, I very happily started going to the local coin shops, starting up conversations with the owner, and before even introducing myself, asking, "Hey I was wondering if you guys are hiring?" Which wasn't all that bad if I would have stopped there... For whatever reason though, when they said, "No", my automatic response was, "well, I would work here for next to nothing, maybe even free, seriously you don't even need to pay me"!!! Its funny cause at the time, I truly could not believe why nobody was taking me serious... Now that I have a better understanding and really know whats going on, I cringe everytime I think about it... First time in a coin shop: You hiring? NO, get outta here unless you are going to buy something!.. Huh? come one man, Ok... ok..., I'll.... I'll.... I'll work for FREE!!! Hows that? You don't even have to pay me!.... woah, woah..... no need to call the police sir, see look Im leaving.

 

Scratching my head as I'm driving away, thinking, "man, what was his problem? Maybe I'll come back next week and see if he's in a better mood".... LMAO....

 

just recently one of the dealers who owns a shop here locally said that at one point they were actually considering hiring me, but ultimately made the decision not to because of the skepticism my "I'll work for FREE" shenanigans caused early on....

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I learned very early in my new hobby to do my homework. I have, "The Coin Collectors Survival Manual" by Scott Travers. "A Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars, A complete history and price guide." By David Bowers. "The Official American Numismatic Grading Standards for US Coins". By Kenneth Bressett. " grading Coins By Photographs" by David Bowers. I also subscribe to Coin World, the Coin Dealer newsletter, And NumisMedia Wholesale Market Deal Price Guide. I have both the Red and Blue book. Please let me know what you might suggest.

Thanks Darry

 

Nothing else in particular. I agree with AHFreak.

 

I do not collect US coins but the reason for my comment is that due to their prices, collectors are a lot more particular in what they buy with expensive coins. I believe it is a lot easier to lose a lot of money.

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