Misconceptions about Peace Dollar toning

[coinman_23885]

It seems there are those that have their minds set on how these Should tone.

 

"Note that I am of the very strong opinion that any 1921 Peace dollar...indeed any Peace dollar...that has any rainbow colors (blue, red, green, etc) is absolutely artificially toned. While not very scientific, my approach to toning on coins is to remember the colors I saw in the 1960's and 1970's and if a new look appears, it's artificial to me. This is kind of an "old school" approach and I may be wrong, but unless you believe global warming has created new colors for coins, it just seems illogical to me that new colors would suddenly appear naturally on coins."

 

-- David Hall, PCGS Coin Facts, in his comments on the 1921 High Relief Peace dollar

 

If Hall would have kept his comments restricted to 1921 Peace $ I might agree with him. I have only seen one rainbow toned 1921 Peace $ and that one is in my collection. It is VF, cleaned and retoned from an album. I have never seen a true MS rainbow 1921 Peace $. I would love to see an an example if anyone can find one.

 

As for the part of his comment about "any Peace dollar" he is completely incorrect. Over the years I have personally removed rainbow toned Peace dollars from all different types of holders. Years ago (12+) I didnt even pay a premium for these coins. Dealers sold them to me for sheet. I submitted them to NGC for grading and they all graded.

 

Matter of fact, 10 or so received * at NGC. Rainbow Peace $ do occur naturally. The fact that he never saw one doesnt mean they dont exist. Between the 1970s and the early 2000s when he made this statement it is entirely possible that many of the coins in the aftermarket holders toned up.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that there are AT Peace $ in NGC and PCGS holders. I believe the 314 coins are AT. The story behind the hoard is a bit of a stretch but there are numerous other toned Peace $ that have been graded by PCGS and were then crossed to NGC. So both services had their look and both found the coins to be MA at least.

 

Ironically, the best and most attractive - toned in very colorful hues - 1921 Peace Dollar I have seen was bought by David Hall's rare coin company, when I worked there in the mid-late 1980's. I believe that at the time, it was graded MS66 by PCGS and I think I saw it in a PCGS 67 holder, years later.

 

I wonder if he remembers. Did you remind him after he made those comments?

[TonerGuy]

Ironically, the best and most attractive - toned in very colorful hues - 1921 Peace Dollar I have seen was bought by David Hall's rare coin company, when I worked there in the mid-late 1980's. I believe that at the time, it was graded MS66 by PCGS and I think I saw it in a PCGS 67 holder, years later.

 

I would love to see that coin. Do you know if you have ever seen it come up for auction at any of the major houses with online archives ?

 

Ive search most of them and have never seen it. I might have missed it though.

 

Years ago Dale had a very nice toned MS___ but it wasnt a vibrant rainbow. It had more muted "autumn" colors/hues - auburn, darker greens, golds. It reminded me of leaves turning fall colors on a tree. I wonder if that is the same coin. I know he paid a substantial sum for it.

[MarkFeld]

Ironically, the best and most attractive - toned in very colorful hues - 1921 Peace Dollar I have seen was bought by David Hall's rare coin company, when I worked there in the mid-late 1980's. I believe that at the time, it was graded MS66 by PCGS and I think I saw it in a PCGS 67 holder, years later.

 

I would love to see that coin. Do you know if you have ever seen it come up for auction at any of the major houses with online archives ?

 

Ive search most of them and have never seen it. I might have missed it though.

 

Years ago Dale had a very nice toned MS___ but it wasnt a vibrant rainbow. It had more muted "autumn" colors/hues - auburn, darker greens, golds. It reminded me of leaves turning fall colors on a tree. I wonder if that is the same coin. I know he paid a substantial sum for it.

 

It's possible it's the same coin. I remember it as having primarily deep red and/or purple and iridescent green hues. But it wasn't what I would call "muted".

 

Edited to add: I don't remember seeing it in an auction.

[MarkFeld]

It seems there are those that have their minds set on how these Should tone.

 

"Note that I am of the very strong opinion that any 1921 Peace dollar...indeed any Peace dollar...that has any rainbow colors (blue, red, green, etc) is absolutely artificially toned. While not very scientific, my approach to toning on coins is to remember the colors I saw in the 1960's and 1970's and if a new look appears, it's artificial to me. This is kind of an "old school" approach and I may be wrong, but unless you believe global warming has created new colors for coins, it just seems illogical to me that new colors would suddenly appear naturally on coins."

 

-- David Hall, PCGS Coin Facts, in his comments on the 1921 High Relief Peace dollar

 

If Hall would have kept his comments restricted to 1921 Peace $ I might agree with him. I have only seen one rainbow toned 1921 Peace $ and that one is in my collection. It is VF, cleaned and retoned from an album. I have never seen a true MS rainbow 1921 Peace $. I would love to see an an example if anyone can find one.

 

As for the part of his comment about "any Peace dollar" he is completely incorrect. Over the years I have personally removed rainbow toned Peace dollars from all different types of holders. Years ago (12+) I didnt even pay a premium for these coins. Dealers sold them to me for sheet. I submitted them to NGC for grading and they all graded.

 

Matter of fact, 10 or so received * at NGC. Rainbow Peace $ do occur naturally. The fact that he never saw one doesnt mean they dont exist. Between the 1970s and the early 2000s when he made this statement it is entirely possible that many of the coins in the aftermarket holders toned up.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that there are AT Peace $ in NGC and PCGS holders. I believe the 314 coins are AT. The story behind the hoard is a bit of a stretch but there are numerous other toned Peace $ that have been graded by PCGS and were then crossed to NGC. So both services had their look and both found the coins to be MA at least.

 

Ironically, the best and most attractive - toned in very colorful hues - 1921 Peace Dollar I have seen was bought by David Hall's rare coin company, when I worked there in the mid-late 1980's. I believe that at the time, it was graded MS66 by PCGS and I think I saw it in a PCGS 67 holder, years later.

 

I wonder if he remembers. Did you remind him after he made those comments?

 

I did not and I thought his comment was so broad in scope and absolute as to be just plain silly.

[TonerGuy]

Ironically, the best and most attractive - toned in very colorful hues - 1921 Peace Dollar I have seen was bought by David Hall's rare coin company, when I worked there in the mid-late 1980's. I believe that at the time, it was graded MS66 by PCGS and I think I saw it in a PCGS 67 holder, years later.

 

I would love to see that coin. Do you know if you have ever seen it come up for auction at any of the major houses with online archives ?

 

Ive search most of them and have never seen it. I might have missed it though.

 

Years ago Dale had a very nice toned MS___ but it wasnt a vibrant rainbow. It had more muted "autumn" colors/hues - auburn, darker greens, golds. It reminded me of leaves turning fall colors on a tree. I wonder if that is the same coin. I know he paid a substantial sum for it.

 

It's possible it's the same coin. I remember it as having primarily deep red and/or purple and iridescent green hues. But it wasn't what I would call "muted".

 

Edited to add: I don't remember seeing it in an auction.

 

It might be the same coin. Perhaps muted was the wrong word. I dont know how to describe it but it wasnt bright and shiny. Its been a long time though. I think I saw that coin once or twice at Long Beach at least 12 years ago. It went into Dale's Box of 20 - never to be seen again.