dfralic2032 on Ebay (Gary Patch)

[pawnee101]

Just wondering if anyone on this knows this guy on Ebay, I bought a 21 Alabama from him last week link

 

It came in the mail today had a bad rim ding near 11 oclock obverse, he had this covered up in the ebay pic, coin isw AU not ms 65, still could smell the cleaning fluid on it, Wow what a nice guy, I mailed it right back with insurance and signature confirmation. Be careful dealing with this fellow

[chinook]

He is good at taking really bad pictures. He is another recently sold example of an altered coin. Can anyone see what is wrong with it?

 

Altered Morgan

[pawnee101]

Wow sure glad I didn't win that one!! Bet he sends it back, This guy is just preying on novice collectors, Guess I am in that bunch, I bought one also but new I was in trouble after I found out who he was, I had bad experiences with him under a different ID and I think a lot of folks have also, all I can say he better refund me promptly or I will take it as far as I have to.

[RGT]

It's a rare obverse 90 degree rotated die?

 

Lousy picture, but it looks polished with frost added to the devices. I really can't tell but I would stay away.

 

That Alabama looked polished too, but it would have been quite a steal at that price if it was original.

[pawnee101]

Ya it looked polished to me when I bid on it but thought it may have been the lighting, well wasn't polished just harshly dipped, in somethin that smelled awful(still on the coin when I got it) I knew it was maybe rigged auction on one hand and but bid anyway, looked at his feedback but not in real deep, he has 1329 pos feedback, thought I would give the guy a chance, thinkingmaybe he had turned honest with the Square trade and all, Hmmm! NOT

[HaydenTubbs]

He lives in the same city as I do,I'll have to see if he's a member of the St.Pete coin club.If so I may just cause him a bit of trouble

He has a ton of polished(he calls them DMPL) Morgans on eBay,

even one with artificial toning! Link

although now that I've looked at it closer it looks more like crayons!

[Wihlborg]

Pawnee101,

 

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I can’t help but think of an old saying that happens to go along with the season, and that is that ‘There is no Santa Claus in numismatics’

 

An Alabama in MS-65 is a $2,000 coin, and whenever I see an expensive coin listed on eBay that is raw, that’s a big red flag for me. In my opinion, when someone is trying to sell an expensive coin raw, 99.9% of the time there is one reason for it, and that reason is because the coin would not be graded by NGC, PCGS, or ANACS.

 

Sure, I know that there are plenty of expensive coins that for one reason or another are raw, and I happen to own quite a few, but if or when I decide to sell any of these coins I’ll have them graded before offering them for sale. This only protects both me and the person I sell the coin to.

 

In my opinion, you’ll do much better sticking to coins graded by NGC, PCGS, or ANACS when bidding on eBay or in any other sight unseen transaction for that matter than taking a gamble on trying to find a gem in the rough.

 

John

[Techno_mike-migration]

eBay is turning into a real coin dumping ground...too many ways to trick the system and bilk even the most experienced collectors...the worst part is that eBay, by its very design, is powerless to stop these clowns...but I guess this is why I only buy from a small group of sellers handling certified coins (the big three). Even the mechanism in place - Feedback - is generally useless when the novice collector is involved...By the time they realize they have been had the feedback is in place. Also, the double-edge nature of the process is a problem - leave negative feedback and get slammed!

 

The vast majority are legitimate dealers and collectors just trying to extend their hobby to a larger public...increasing that pool of people we all may need to sell to in the future. I hate to think how many people have been ripped off early in their experience with numismatics only to quit in disgust!

[pawnee101]

John, I have bought and sold on Ebay since 1996, I am not a novice, most dealers, are really honest even on Ebay, as for the starting price of the coin it was somewhat over a hundred dollars, all my auctions start at 99 cents, even if its a $2000 item, yep its my fault, I bid on this bargain coin on Ebay, no I don't think so! the guy said it was an ms65, well every coin I own ussually jumps a grade or so in my eyes, I figured it would at least be UNC 61-63, but it wasn't even unc, AU at best and had the rim really messed up in the 11 oclock obverse, this guy cleverly ommitted this part of the coin in his picture, this is complete fraud in my eyes, not a dealer unloading junk coins!

[michael]

a true really nice ms65 alabammy that is fully struck on the eagle on the reverse and with neat toning and not the usual drab dipped white or black yellow ugly mottled toning is a $3500-$4500 coin easy and would have multiple buyers lined up as such to buy

 

 

even from the photo you can see an edge crimp on the reverse and also the coin is highly polished /matte /specimum surfaces due to harsh chemicals even my blind friend who looked at the scan of this coin saw the polishing /matte /specium surfaces from harsh chemicals

 

AND ALABAMMYS NEVER COME WITH SURFACES LIKE THIS ON ORIGINAL UNMOLESTED original mint issue COINS

 

 

michael

[Wihlborg]

Pawnee101,

 

My original post was not meant as a personal attack on you for bidding on the coin, that’s why I started it with ‘Please don’t take this the wrong way’.

 

It was meant to give MY opinion about buying expensive coins that are RAW sight unseen. You obviously are much more comfortable bidding on expensive raw coins sight unseen than I am, and that’s fine, it’s your money, but unfortunately, it would seem that this case is a perfect example of what I was cautioning about.

 

Good luck in the future.

 

John

[pawnee101]

Well guys thanks and John didn't mean anything by barkin at you, the whole reason for this post was not my loss in the first place, I just wanted all to know what kind of dealer this guy is, well he says he is gonna refund me so I guess we will see, I overnighted the MS65 back to him. Mike

[chinook]

RGT,

 

Yup, it artificially frosted alright. Notice how the frosting is only on the portrait and the eagle and wreath reverse. If it was real the frosting should be on the letters also. I imagine if you could look at it closely you would see patches of frost in the field also.

 

This was probably whizzed, polished then frosted. A $10 coin and presto $600 now. Bad news.

[HaydenTubbs]

This should interest you Pawnee101: Link

[Techno_mike-migration]

This guys has 60 MS65 DMPL Morgans listed right now! The second coin listed - a 1904 - should be the slap in the face anyone needs to tell you he is ripping you off...This coin lists at $20,000 for $154! The 79-O...$16,500 for a mere $99! The 90-S...$12,500 for the stunningly great price of $188! The 82...$5750 for a staggering $28! And many of the others >$1000! There is no way someone would not submit legitimate coins of this magnitude to NGC or PCGS.

 

But these kinds of extremes require a lot responsibility be taken on the part of the buyer...with all the information on the internet (even if the price guides like PCGS are a bit skewed high), how could one think that he or she will get this great a discount?

[pawnee101]

Wow there was one user that bought 29-30 of this guys DMPL coins, must be a dumb millionaire, his user ID is q4500

[resslme-migration]

I've learned a few of the hard-way-on-ebay lessons myself. Wanna see a perfect example of Lesson 1: There's a reason behind cruddy or absent photos other than cruddy or absent digital cameras? This one was listed as part of a coin lot with a note, "scratch on obverse" -- Scratch My !!!

[resslme-migration]

oops -- this one

[Techno_mike-migration]

Whoa! That's not a scratch...that's the San Andreas fault! Sorry about that...I bought a 1888-S Morgan in AU with an image about two years ago when I had just started out on ebay...the coin had an ugly scratch down the field of the obverse that I could not see in the image due to the angle the seller used...I inquired about returning (even though he had a posted policy), but was subtly threatened by the possibility of negative feedback...I caved and kept the coin, but it has become a great lesson in the learning process.