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Grading of toned coins

Started by abdelnam-migration,

17 posts in this topic

abdelnam-migration

abdelnam-migration

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What criteria does NGC follow when deciding whether a coin toning is artificial or natural? I recently had two Morgan Dollars, which had been in my family for over fifty years and toned very nicely over the years, sent back to me with no grades assigned for the reason of “art toning. Knowing that these coins have never been subjected to any kind of treatment makes me wonder how judgment is made on coin toning?

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TomB

TomB

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Howdy and welcome to the boards. The judgement as to AT (artificial toning) is based upon years of experience in buying, selling and grading coins. There is no "test" as to AT aside from extensive experience as to how coins normally "look".

 

As for the Morgan dollars from your family, well, Morgans were last minted in 1921 so a coin that has been in the family for 50 years could very easily have been artificially toned before it came into the family's possession. Also, until the 1970s, it was very common for people to clean their coins. In fact, this was a fairly accepted practice. Coins that have been cleaned at one point will develop toning that does not look right, and this will be characterized as AT.

 

Would it be possible for you to post good images?

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abdelnam-migration

abdelnam-migration

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Tom,

 

Thank you for the warm welcome!

 

It’s my understanding that coin doctoring started in the eighties. I know people were cleaning coins even much earlier than that, but artificial toning is more recent.

 

If my coins developed unique toning because they were previously cleaned, then why does this put them in the category of “artificial toning”? Based on all the articles I’ve seen about “coin doctoring” I thought this term applies to situations where the coins are actually cooked or submitted to some sort of chemical treatment.

 

Unfortunately, I don’t have any pictures of these coins right now, but I’ll try to take some this weekend. Hopefully me digital camera will be able to capture the colors!

 

Mohamed

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ArtR

ArtR

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It’s my understanding that coin doctoring started in the eighties. I know people were cleaning coins even much earlier than that, but artificial toning is more recent.

Hi Mohamed:

Artificial Toning on coins has been around for a very long time. I started collection toned coins in 1973 and it was going on then. I have friends who were collecting toned coins in the 60's who had seen AT coins.

I'd like to add that many coins that have been cleaned in the past will form a secondary toning which at times is hard to distinguish between natural and artificial.

 

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TomB

TomB

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I look forward to seeing your images. smile.gif

 

ArtR is correct in that the practice of artificially toning coins has been going on for decades, however, the primary motive for this practice has started to shift in the last two decades. Most coins that have been subjected to AT have been worked on to cover up flaws on the coin and to make it appear to be something it isn't. This might be trying to hide light hairlines, mask some rub from circulation or even to obscure a repair or gouge on the coin. More recently, the idea of making the coins look like they have wild colors has come into vogue and this is what most people currently think of as AT.

 

If your coin had been cleaned, but not in a harsh manner, then it might appear to have fairly original surfaces, but the secondary toning on the coin might not be the type of color one might expect to see on an original piece. In these cases the term AT is used by the services. This doesn't necessarily mean that they believe the toning was applied by someone, rather, this means that they don't believe the toning has formed in a natural manner on an original coin.

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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Welcome to the boards, Mohamed! Great to have you here.

 

Another point is the following: AT not only means Artificial Toning but also Accelerated Toning. The copper and silver in a coin will react with a hostile atmosphere, regardless of the source. Some coin doctors will use chemicals not readily found in the environment which will cause some unusual colors that are not accepted as "natural". And, as mentioned, some cleanings will cause the coin to tone in a way that deviates from the normal, slow toning process.

 

I know that it may appear to be "insulting" for a coin that has been in the family for so long to be returned as AT but, when in doubt, the grading services will always lean towards AT due to bad experiences in the past.

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Hoot

Hoot

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Hi Mohamed - The problem with your image is that it's on a site that required a login in order to access its files. You can load a pic of less than 150k directly onto this site as an "attachment." Just be sure that at the bottom of the reply page, you have checked "I want to preview my post and/or attach a file" when you click to "proceed." Then use the "You may attach a file if you like (no bigger than 150000 bytes please)." dialog to navigate to the pic on your computer. Click and upload. See if you can follow that, then your pic will show as an attachment to your post.

 

Hoot

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abdelnam-migration

abdelnam-migration

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Gentlemen,

 

One more word on the subject: People may have cleaned coins fifty years ago, but it’s my understanding that they did that abrasively by scrubbing them, not by dipping solutions or chemicals. Back then they didn’t have the technologies or the information available to us today!

 

Here are the photos

658211-toned_81.jpg.833d8e1884f01e3446a7830cd87c0112.jpg

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Bruceswar

Bruceswar

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If they were cleaned many years ago.. they will not grade... as for the AT... The colors are not that attractive to me to begin with... but also they don't look like many I have seen... maybe some others will be suited to answer

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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Mohamed,

 

As Bruce mentioned, the toning isn't as "wild or extreme" as one would expect for an intentional, artificially toned coin. The coin doctors would want its eye-appeal to beckon collectors in order to maximize the selling price. I am reasonably sure that NGC bodybagged the $1 because of an old cleaning which stripped away the micro-thin layer which actually protected the coin's surface. By stripping away this protective layer, it allowed for an unnatural toning to occur.

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