The strikes of the 1940-S Jefferson nickel!

[Leothelion]

Hi everyoneAs we all know, the AVERAGE strike for many dates of the Jefferson nickel series are less then full! Hoot has showna 40-S in another thread which has steered me to start a thread on the strike of the 1940-S nickels!I did some searching through the Heritage and Teletrade archives of past sales to find a fully strucked 1940-S and have come up with some interesting food for your thoughts!For Heritage, I could only find one coin that I thought was fully struck. There was another that came close but couldn't tell from the picture. There were only 27 coins to pick from with a few duplicates that had been returned and reauctioned dating back to April of 2000! And I'll say it now, because most of those coins were poorly stucked therefore they were overgraded! But here's that one coin and it was graded by Pcgs as a MS67FS. The price realized was rediculously over 2 grand but we all know it was for points for someone's registry set! This coin looks very nice and the strike appears to be full. A little of that horseshoe can be seen on the reverse. And I believe, what I could find at the Heritage site says alot about how tough this date is to locate with a fully strike!And only some 20 coins of this date having been auctioned in 4 1/2 years

 

 

 

Get simple, reliable, and affordable image hosting with Vendio today!

Let's hop over to Teletrade and I didn't keep track of the number of 1940-S nickels that sold there. Many didn't have pictures but I did look at quite a few before I came to this one. And I must tell you, I'm scratching my head on why I missed this auction! This coin sold for a measly $180 and now it's gone! But seeing this date fully struck says it all about collecting the Jefferson nickel series! And this coin also makes a clear statement on how bad the TGC's are grading this series. Because of this coin's full strike, it should be the lone MS66 coin! Or if there are a couple others like it, the pops should be a one digit number for this date!

 

 

 

Get simple, reliable, and affordable image hosting with Vendio today!

I can't believe I missed that coin! The next two coins are mine! The first shows the problem in the hair, how the coin did not strike up in that area!

 

 

 

Get simple, reliable, and affordable image hosting with Vendio today!

This coin's strike is better but it still has a small area like the first coin where it didn't strike up fully!

 

 

 

Get simple, reliable, and affordable image hosting with Vendio today!

And both of my coins have that horseshoe effect showing on the reverse sides! Nice pun David! I believe the "horseshoe" coins is going to stick with me, for awhile anyway! The strikes for the S mint years of 1939, 1940 and 1941, for the majority of them are poorly struck with that horseshoe reverse. But here's my 1941-S and it has a full strike! Not a high grade but it is a nice coin overall! And without the horseshoe!

 

 

 

Get simple, reliable, and affordable image hosting with Vendio today!

 

 

 

Get simple, reliable, and affordable image hosting with Vendio today!

Thanks, Leo

[Hoot]

Nice post Leo - not sure how I missed this one.

 

Yes, the early 40s San Fran coins are tough to find fully struck. The thing I find so rare and attractive about the first coin you show is that it appears to have very smooth surfaces without dimpling that is common to that date. The halos aren't at all as noticeable as they are on many pieces. Given Heritage's crappy photos/scans, that piece is likely very nice.

 

Wish I would have seen that 40-S on Teletrade too!

 

A real tough coin with 6 FS.

 

Hoot

[Leothelion]

Nice post Leo - not sure how I missed this one.

 

Yes, the early 40s San Fran coins are tough to find fully struck.

The thing I find so rare and attractive about the first ocin you show

is that it appears to have very smooth surfaces without dimpling

that is common to that date. The halos aren't at all as noticeable

as they are on many pieces. Given Heritage's crappy photos/scans,

that piece is likely very nice.

 

Wish I would havve seen that 40-S on Teletrade too!

 

A real tough coin with 6 FS.

 

Hoot

 

Hoot

I did remember seeing the Teletrade coin when I saw the forehead nick again.

But it had a nice strike nontheless, I passed on it!

 

Leo

[nickelcollector-migration]

Leo

 

Here is the 1940S from my collection, not a fully struck example but pretty close.

 

Frank

 

[Hoot]

Looks like a very lustrous piece. I can like that a lot about 40-S nicks, well struck or not. Great coin!

 

Hoot

[Leothelion]

Hey FrankHoot's right! Looks like a very lustrous piece. Very nice strike also regardless of the slight of hand horseshoe!

 

 

 

Get simple, reliable, and affordable image hosting with Vendio today!

Leo

[spy88]

Frank, you've got a good one there! And Leo, you always post nice Jeffs...and didn't let me down with these!

 

And here is one of mine. Did you say 6 steps Hoot? And just look at that reverse horseshoe Leo!!

 

 

Yea, being very LDS the strike really sucks but the luster, steps and being fairly free of hits or nicks make it a keeper. My others are all better strikes but not as good as any posted and they don't have the 6 steps.

[Leothelion]

Frank, you've got a good one there! And Leo, you always post nice Jeffs...and didn't let me down with these!

 

And here is one of mine. Did you say 6 steps Hoot? And just look at that reverse horseshoe Leo!!

Yea, being very LDS the strike really sucks but the luster, steps and being fairly free of hits or nicks make it a keeper. My others are all better strikes but not as good as any posted and they don't have the 6 steps.

 

Hey, it doesn't look that bad! In fact, it looks far better then the two coins I posted........the "horseshoe effect" that is! If we ever get together, we can play a few games of miniature "Rolle Bolles" with them nickels! How's that sound?

Looks like I'll have some competition for a fully struck 40-S!

 

Leo

[nickelcollector-migration]

Leo:

 

FYI I posted pictures of my entire MS set in the PCGS 38 - present full step with varieties set. There is a link on the other board.

Frank

[Hoot]

Great detail on those coins, guys!

 

Here's the backside of my 40-S, six stepper. It's a great coin with a lot of luster from the myriad die polish lines that criss-cross its surfaces. (And I already know it's a bad pic. I'll try to get a better one.)

 

Hoot

 

[Leothelion]

Leo:

 

FYI I posted pictures of my entire MS set in the PCGS 38 - present full step with varieties set. There is a link on the other board.

Frank

 

Here's the link to Corso's collection!

 

The pictures do not do justice to Corso's FS Jefferson collection! They're not even close!

Frank and I got together for the first time over the weekend in Fort Lauderdale to share

each other's collections. The only problem I had with Frank's collection is the fact that I

did not have one single coin that I could compare with his coins. The problem with Frank

is that he's building a matched set of high grade coins, all with the same strong strike,

light gold, lustrous eye appeal. I guess this is what happens when a guy dedicates 30 years

of his life with building this kind of collection. His 1960 MS66FS shares the same high qualities

as his MS67FS 1941-D! If any of you Jefferson collectors had any doubts about his

MS67FS 1941-S and 1942 T1, they are very impressive, equal in the highest standards

of quality and eye appeal.

Frank does have a lot of work to do with several coins in the early 1950's and 1960's,

but completing a set of this calibur will take some time but is very important, not to just

Frank but it should mean something to all of you! This is not a collection of mixed eye

appealing coins! It's not a mixture of white, brilliant, toned, strikes etc or whatever ends up

in a high grade slab, it's a match set and IMO, that's the toughest way, the highest

standard to achieve in building a collection of modern date coins! A match set of colorful

toned modern coins would follow or equal this set!

Words like spectacular, sensational, dazzling, dramatic, stunning can easily be applied to

describing the quality of Frank's collection. But what needs to be done here is for others

to help Frank complete this set!

I imagine Jon stands to have an equal quality in standards with building his set if he's

assembling a match set, I don't know yet! His collection may be just as impressive

as Frank's collection but I do have a former top registry collector's personal account

when he saw Frank's collection.

All of the above is just my honest opinion for whatever it's worth. Frank, it was great

meeting you and seeing your collection, hopefully will do it again soon.

 

And Frank, on a side note, I did have some success at the show.

 

Leo

[spy88]

Hi Frank, glad you could drop by! I too perused your collection thru your link and found myself drooling over almost all of them! Simply the best and highly doubt anyone would be able to come close to duplicating it! I've since visited it many times to note various characteristics of individual coins in your set. So glad you have excellent pics to view!

 

I see Steve (Nevadaman) on a regular basis here in Vegas and I've done some work with Ray (and I know where he gets quite a few of his goodies!), but coin for coin, date for date, your set cannot be considered in the same vein.

 

Just one small question for you. When you do find a upgrade(s), what is the disposition of the other coin(s)? Do you hang on to it/them or do you sell it/them to help appropriate the next upgrade? If you sell, I would consider it an honor to be included in the bidding for it/them.

 

Thanks and good hunting!

 

And here's my 66 6FS from NGC. Not the best strike but til something better comes along, it'll do.

 

 

And Leo, in your Teletrade search, did you happen to see this 66*? Went for $140. The star? yes. 66 clean? yes. 66 luster? yes. 66 strike? NO! 63/4. 2 extra pts for 3 out of 5 (FS is the fifth)?

 

 

 

[Hoot]

Hi David - The strike on the 40-S you show is really much worse than your picture shows, although the color is much better. I should know since I'm the insufficiently_thoughtful_person who owns it.

 

I find the coin superb. Ain't it great that there's not only one way to collect this fine series.

 

 

Hoot

[Wihlborg]

I find the coin superb. Ain't it great that there's not only one way to collect this fine series.

 

Hoot, I agree. I've commented on your coin before, but I'll say it again. I think that is a wonderful coin. Lacking only sharpness of strike, the coin is superb in all other aspects.

 

There’s nothing wrong with hunting for the best struck, full step Jeff’s if that’s what you're into, but I think that one will miss out on a lot of very nice nickels if that is the only criteria you use to judge whether to buy a coin or not. This is especially so for a series such as Jefferson nickels where the majority of the issues are not known for being sharply struck. JMHO

 

John

[spy88]

Mark, I have nothing but respect for your collecting ways and the coins you put up for us to drool over. No slam intended or inferred by my posting the pic of a coin you just happen to have been the purchaser of. As the discussion was of strike, strike and exclusively strike, I think the 66* is overgraded. Does it deserve the 66 from the other criteria? Not sure. In all other aspects, I would certainly not mind owning it myself!

 

I know most people think I'm only into FS Jeffs regardless of other qualities and that's ok. I don't mind. My collection aside from the FS Jeffs has rarely seen the light of a camera. They just aren't my mainstream interest but do get tended to. Some of them have been posted (splatter, working late, dancing poodle, etc.), part of my eye appeal Jeffs. I also have a blast white set underway and both of these sets are regardless of steps. Guess I'll get them out and run up some pics!

 

Although I may seem to only talk/post FS Jeffs, I'm not fixated on them alone as the only attribute I look for.

[Leothelion]

Hi David - The strike on the 40-S you show is really much worse than your picture shows, although the color is much better. I should know since I'm the insufficiently_thoughtful_person who owns it.

 

I find the coin superb. Ain't it great that there's not only one way to collect this fine series.

 

 

Hoot

 

Hoot

I've got to tell you, in a way, your coin does looks cool! The Monticello looks like it suffer some kind of radical terrorist attack where the lower front part of the building and pillars were blown up but yet, somehow, the portico (triangle section) remains intact. If there was ever a hidden message in all this, I believe the answer may lie in between those two huge ( )'s.

 

 

Leo

[Hoot]

Hoot

I've got to tell you, in a way, your coin does looks cool! The Monticello looks like it suffer some kind of radical terrorist attack where the lower front part of the building and pillars were blown up but yet, somehow, the portico (triangle section) remains intact. If there was ever a hidden message in all this, I believe the answer may lie in between those two huge ( )'s.

 

 

Leo

 

I believe that I once revealed that Jefferson had a special switch he would hit and the steps on Monticello would fold and become smooth - thus becomming a slide. Only a few clever Mint employees knew this and they are responsible for the "no steps" design. In the wintertime, this was one of Jefferson's kids' favorite features of their home. Otherwise, they hated it because it was only worth a nickel.

 

Hoot

[Hoot]

Mark, I have nothing but respect for your collecting ways and the coins you put up for us to drool over. No slam intended or inferred by my posting the pic of a coin you just happen to have been the purchaser of. As the discussion was of strike, strike and exclusively strike, I think the 66* is overgraded. Does it deserve the 66 from the other criteria? Not sure. In all other aspects, I would certainly not mind owning it myself!

 

I know most people think I'm only into FS Jeffs regardless of other qualities and that's ok. I don't mind. My collection aside from the FS Jeffs has rarely seen the light of a camera. They just aren't my mainstream interest but do get tended to. Some of them have been posted (splatter, working late, dancing poodle, etc.), part of my eye appeal Jeffs. I also have a blast white set underway and both of these sets are regardless of steps. Guess I'll get them out and run up some pics!

 

Although I may seem to only talk/post FS Jeffs, I'm not fixated on them alone as the only attribute I look for.

 

I'll admit that in terms of strike, the coin is pressing hard the limits of grade. Funny thing is, however, if you study the coin carefully, it's otherwise crisp in all details, unbelievably mark-free, and pretty well struck in the peripheral devices. The luster is out of this world, and of course, the color really stands out. The "star" designation is unequivocal, even if you don't agree with the grade. But since grade is not due to any single factor, this piece is really tough to judge. In terms of all characteristics other than strike, the coin is a high-end MS67. So, I believe it's graded correctly. However, the reasoning is subjective, and you and others believe that there needs to be more fullness of detail to rise to or above MS65. That's a-okie-kay, but sometimes I think the boundaries of grade are simply more flexible.

 

Hoot

[Leothelion]

Mark, I have nothing but respect for your collecting ways and the coins you put up for us to drool over. No slam intended or inferred by my posting the pic of a coin you just happen to have been the purchaser of. As the discussion was of strike, strike and exclusively strike, I think the 66* is overgraded. Does it deserve the 66 from the other criteria? Not sure. In all other aspects, I would certainly not mind owning it myself!

 

I know most people think I'm only into FS Jeffs regardless of other qualities and that's ok. I don't mind. My collection aside from the FS Jeffs has rarely seen the light of a camera. They just aren't my mainstream interest but do get tended to. Some of them have been posted (splatter, working late, dancing poodle, etc.), part of my eye appeal Jeffs. I also have a blast white set underway and both of these sets are regardless of steps. Guess I'll get them out and run up some pics!

 

Although I may seem to only talk/post FS Jeffs, I'm not fixated on them alone as the only attribute I look for.

 

I'll admit that in terms of strike, the coin is pressing hard the limits of grade. Funny thing is, however, if you study the coin carefully, it's otherwise crisp in all details, unbelievably mark-free, and pretty well struck in the peripheral devices. The luster is out of this world, and of course, the color really stands out. The "star" designation is unequivocal, even if you don't agree with the grade. But since grade is not due to any single factor, this piece is really tough to judge. In terms of all characteristics other than strike, the coin is a high-end MS67. So, I believe it's graded correctly. However, the reasoning is subjective, and you and others believe that there needs to be more fullness of detail to rise to or above MS65. That's a-okie-kay, but sometimes I think the boundaries of grade are simply more flexible.

 

Hoot

 

Seriously, send that monster in for MS67 review! David, John and I are behind you 10%!

 

Leo

[Hoot]

 

<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm813AJUS' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif' alt='ROTFL' border=0></a> Seriously, send that monster in for MS67 review! David, John and I are behind you 10%!

 

Leo <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm813AJUS' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif' alt='Too Funny' border=0></a>

 

Good one Leo! And maybe some day an old hic like you will learn how to READ!

 

Hoot

[nickelcollector-migration]

Leo:

 

It was nice meeting you meeting you at FUN. You also have a very impressive full step collection. Thanks for the very nice asessment. I am going to continue to search for upgrades. I keep my set in a bank vault and it is too dfficult going there all the time to check on a coin in my collection for possible upgrades. Having the coin photos now allows me to easier evaluate potential upgrades. I will probably become a little more active looking for upgrades in the same grade or better. This was an unexpected benfit of taking the photos. Did your your 53S come back from PCGS?

 

David:

 

Thanks for your comments. Many of these coins were upgraded 3 -5 times before I settled for the current coin. As for my duplicates I normally offer the very high coins to fellow registry collectors individually. Then I post in the PCGS boards. Finally they go to Teletrade. If you get any upgrades I can use email me with details.

 

Frank

[Leothelion]

I've told you once and I'll tell you

again, don't let them pretty colors

go to your head!

ok.

[Leothelion]

Leo:

 

It was nice meeting you meeting you at FUN. You also have a very impressive full step collection. Thanks for the very nice asessment. I am going to continue to search for upgrades. I keep my set in a bank vault and it is too dfficult going there all the time to check on a coin in my collection for possible upgrades. Having the coin photos now allows me to easier evaluate potential upgrades. I will probably become a little more active looking for upgrades in the same grade or better. This was an unexpected benfit of taking the photos. Did your your 53S come back from PCGS?

 

David:

 

Thanks for your comments. Many of these coins were upgraded 3 -5 times before I settled for the current coin. As for my duplicates I normally offer the very high coins to fellow registry collectors individually. Then I post in the PCGS boards. Finally they go to Teletrade. If you get any upgrades I can use email me with details.

 

Frank

 

Frank

Let me relate a humorous story here! As Bob and I were patiently awaiting, another collector came up and showed his dissapointment with Pcgs. He had submitted a coin the day before and was expecting a top pop but the coin came back a low 64. We could easily see this guy was visibly upset, so Bob and I tried consoleing the guy. He said that he was so upset, all he could do was stand there and shake in disbelief when he saw the results. He said, sure, I could of settled for a 66 but a 64?

After the guy left, I also got up to leave and looked back at Bob and said, "if I don't get the right results, you might see some chairs flying! With that, both Bob and I cracked up laughing! And needless to say, the chairs didn't go anywhere!

 

Leo