on which series is grading getting tighter? looser?? the last year or so

[michael]

is there a specific coin series or date

 

that both pcgs and ngc are grading tighter on,,,,, as of the last year or so??

 

also what series has seen the most in terms of "gradeflation"in the last year in your opinion?

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now for me i find that grading is an evolution and things are changing for the better

overall in the grading industry as regards to ngc and pcgs and being a human factor combined with the subjective nature of grading there will always be a bell curve to grading where the majority of coins the overwhelming majority will be accurately graded by both pcgs and ngc with a few at both ends of the spectrum

 

 

what do you think??

 

 

michael

[Oldtrader3]

US Gold denominations seem to me to be the series with the most gradeflation. IMHO, it is difficult to find an accurately graded MS60 to MS62 coin that is not a slider anymore. Just my opinion, of course, but I tend to be conservative on gold grades after years of experience.

 

I also think that NGC is very tight on FBL Franklin grades. More so than PCGS.

[wingedliberty-migration]

I would say that the grading services have become much tighter on early copper as a whole due to the influence of devoted EAC specialists and I would add that they have gotten very loose on 69 and 70 moderns, I see far more 70's out there by both services , probably in an effort to satisfy the TV and telemarketing scoundrels and their marketing of 69 and 70 material.

I have seen tremendous tightening on early large cents and half cents in particular, I have seen modern commems make 70 that have haze on them., whether it was after slabbing with air bubbles, who knows? All I know is that I am glad that early copper is finally more reflective of EAC standards. (still a long way to go though). Its ever evolving. Thats a good thing.

I must also point out that in my opinion NGC is far more consistent now than PCGS. NGC is my grading service of choice.

[Tradedollarnut]

Seated dollars have gotten a bit looser lately. An 1846-O upgraded from 64 to 65. An 1852 went from 64 to 65. An 1857 upgraded from 64 to 66 and another from 65 to 66. An 1860-O went from 65 to 66.

[spy88]

I can definitely vouch for the fact that at least PCGS has seriously tightened up on Jeffersons---grades and especially FS attribute. I think they may have gone too far though. This may pose a very lucrative opportunity for NGC to garner some of the Jeff FS slabbing that they've always had right in the first place!

[chinook]

TDN,

 

Do you think they are looser on just business strikes or do you think proofs might get a bump also?

[Hoot]

In keeping with their legacy of inconsistency, PCGS has shifted their grades on nickels back 1/2 to 1 full point. I think the way that they may be grading many coins nowadays is "Oh, this coin is a 65, give it a 64." That way they guarantee their future for crackout submissions when they come back to reality.

 

Hoot

[Tradedollarnut]

Do you think they are looser on just business strikes or do you think proofs might get a bump also?

 

I don't track the proofs, but I can say I personally have had none go up. The MS coins I track, so I'm aware when one goes up. My above examples were just at NGC. There's been a few at PCGS also.

[EZ_E]

I would say that the grading services have become much tighter on early copper as a whole due to the influence of devoted EAC specialists and I would add that they have gotten very loose on 69 and 70 moderns, I see far more 70's out there by both services , probably in an effort to satisfy the TV and telemarketing scoundrels and their marketing of 69 and 70 material.

I have seen tremendous tightening on early large cents and half cents in particular, I have seen modern commems make 70 that have haze on them., whether it was after slabbing with air bubbles, who knows? All I know is that I am glad that early copper is finally more reflective of EAC standards. (still a long way to go though). Its ever evolving. Thats a good thing.

I must also point out that in my opinion NGC is far more consistent now than PCGS. NGC is my grading service of choice.

 

Great post, Brian. I too think that it is a good thing to tighten the grading of the EAC's. How is this affecting the pricing? Has there been a sharp increase?

 

This interests me since I am still looking for a nice AU Classic head large cent for my type set but they are almost impossible to find correctly graded with a nice planchet.

[EZ_E]

In keeping with their legacy of inconsistency, PCGS has shifted their grades on nickels back 1/2 to 1 full point. I think the way that they may be grading many coins nowadays is "Oh, this coin is a 65, give it a 64." That way they guarantee their future for crackout submissions when they come back to reality.

 

Hoot

 

Hoot, that's not the first time that I've heard that theory about PCGS. I have a 1909 PCGS PR 65 CAM Liberty nickel that is totally original with not the slightest mark on it. It is a no-brainer 66 and maybe even a 67. What gives? Your theory is the only thing that makes sense to me at this point.

[wingedliberty-migration]

EZ:

 

Thanks for the feedback. I would stay that quality early copper is always in demand and folks are willing to pay strong money for quality and accuratley graded copper, particularly the early stuff.

I think NGC is getting more in line with EAC standards, but its a very gradual process. I think PCGS is getting looser with their copper and I won't buy it anymore.

The best thing still is to treat each coin on an individual basis. I prefer nice chocolate brown, because either way, its going to turn brown sooner or later.

[thebeav]

I prefer nice chocolate brown, because either way, its going to turn brown sooner or later.

 

Now that is an interesting point !!

 

Paul

[coinman1794]

NGC has tightened up a little on the line between XF45 and AU50-53 for Capped Bust halves. I have had a lot of nice AU50 coins recently (coins that would normally grade a solid AU50 at NGC, that is) that came back XF45. NGC tightened up on these Bust halves within the last 6 months or so. To look at the bright side, you can find some very high-end 45's in fresh holders!

[RGT]

This is starting to get me worried a bit. I rarely send coins in for grading but just a month ago I had my local dealer send some to NGC for me. Among the six coins was a nice 1804 spiked chin half cent he assured me would come back AU. Also in the lot was a Capped Bust half I expect to come back AU. If these both come back EF45 I'm going to take a big hit.

 

The half cent went in the $30 shipment and the rest went for $16. I need to check with the dealer because the half cent may be back by now.

[coinman1794]

Well, its certainly possible, but don't worry too much, yet. You never know exactly what grade they are going to come up with in the end. You might get your AU's after all.

[RGT]

I just got back from the coin shop and my coins were back. The rumors of NGC tighening seem to be greatly exgerated (from my one tiny insignificant sample). The half cent and bust half I was hoping for AU on both came back AU58.

 

Of the other four coins I sent in, two came back in the grade I expected, one a grade higher and one a point lower. Overall, I am quite pleased.

[coinman1794]

Well remember, my Bust Halves example delt with AU50 coins grading XF45, not AU58 coins grading XF45. So, those coins really don't apply to my examples. Glad to see you weren't dissapointed with your grades.

[RGT]

I have had the half cent a few years and bought it as an EF. I have it listed in my collection as EF45. The dealer assured me it was AU but even he didn't expect it to get a 58. Maybe I should join the EAC since my grading seems to be more in line with that bunch.

 

As for the Half, I expected the AU on that one, but I was guessing more like 53-55. I have no bust half grading skills though. I was pretty sure it was at least an AU.

[Leothelion]

I don't know about that the rest of you guys but I just don't "get it".

Other than having the possibility of finding something "high end"

in a lower grade slab what difference does it make whether the

TGCs are grading looser or tighter! The purpose of the pops is

to help place value on your best coins. But as we all know, the

pops are all screwwed up for the exception of those collectors

who have been able to keep track of their top grades! But if and

when they are given an accurate grade while most of the coins

in the same grade are crappy coins that shouldn't be at the same

grade level as your coin. Then the pops are off! It becomes pointless

and mute except when someone else ends up buying your high

end coin for that grade which is accurate by the way, for far less

money then it's worth had the TGCs been consistent from the

beginning! The only means we have to go on these days is by

word of mouth and knowing who the serious collectors are! The

only purpose I see for the TGCs is to help dealers sell their crapp

through certfication means! And that's BULL! So it must be tough

for the TGCs to be accurate and/or consistant and keep the stock

holders happy at the same time if they must depend on mass

submissions to make a profit! They need a second tier of a serious

grading service, they need to take more time in grading and handling

of the coins, to make a new set of pops accurate!

 

All those in favor say YEA! YEA! YEA!

 

Leo

[TomB]

I think Leo makes some extremely valid points. I've always looked at the grade on a TPG holder as an opinion, and I don't even look at the assigned grade until I come up with my own grade. Too many people, however, take the assigned grade as fact and don't believe they could possibly know more than a TPG when it comes to grading coins. Folks, most of us whom are serious about a series or niche market are likely better and more consistent graders than any TPG.

 

Having written that, I want you all to realize that I don't think the TPGs are evil; I just view them as an opinion on preservation and authenticity. So, when I think about which series might be graded differently today than one or two years ago, I think about those coins that I might buy for less than they are truly worth because someone else trusts a wavering TPG more than they trust themselves.

[jom]

Having written that, I want you all to realize that I don't think the TPGs are evil; I just view them as an opinion on preservation and authenticity.

 

That's pretty much how I use them. The first thing I look at (or decide) is whether I LIKE the coin then I'll notice the grade. This will determine (roughly) the price. If I'm still interested then I'll check closer to see if I agree with the grade....especially if the assigned grade is at a price that has a large jump from the next lowest grade.

 

jom

[EZ_E]

Having written that, I want you all to realize that I don't think the TPGs are evil; I just view them as an opinion on preservation and authenticity.

 

That's pretty much how I use them. The first thing I look at (or decide) is whether I LIKE the coin then I'll notice the grade. This will determine (roughly) the price. If I'm still interested then I'll check closer to see if I agree with the grade....especially if the assigned grade is at a price that has a large jump from the next lowest grade.

 

jom

 

I like TGS's because of their authentication services and for the "guideline" they offer on the grade. This is useful when buying via mail order but it certainly offers no guarantee. I've sent many slabbed coins back for lack of eye-appeal or simply because they were overgraded.

[Here]

Another neat thread that's been over a year since it was posted to. Even though ANACS wasn't mentioned originally, I think it needs to be added now. They are tightening on everything. At least the rumor mill says it's so!

 

 

 

Jerry

[HaydenTubbs]

Another neat thread that's been over a year since it was posted to. Even though ANACS wasn't mentioned originally, I think it needs to be added now. They are tightening on everything. At least the rumor mill says it's so!

 

 

 

Jerry

 

Yes,and it always seems like it always right after I submit something to a certain grading service they tighten up!

[michael]

an important topic

[James_OldeTowne]

In my last submission to ANACS, which was within the past two months, 4 of 5 grades were spot, and one was slightly conservative, in my opinion.

 

James

[EZ_E]

and I would add that they have gotten very loose on 69 and 70 moderns, I see far more 70's out there by both services , probably in an effort to satisfy the TV and telemarketing scoundrels and their marketing of 69 and 70 material.

 

I was watching The Coin Vault the other night (first time in ages) and Robert Chambers stated that of 25 rolls of the 1987 ASE (500 coins), only three came back as MS 69 and no MS 70's. I certainly believe him.... NOT!

 

I think that somehow, these telemarketers should be held accountable for their statements.

[Oldtrader3]

Recent NGC Grading Update: The last (3) recently graded NGC coins that I have purchased were an AU55 1879-S Quarter-eagle, a MS63 1910-P Half-eagle and a MS65 1916-S Saint. IMHO, all (3) of these coins were conservatively graded and were above average specimens of their grade, date and MM. I have posted pictures of all three of these coins on this board in the last (2) months and all are included in my gold Signature Set.

[HaydenTubbs]

I think that somehow, these telemarketers should be held accountable for their statements.

 

Victor,it will never happen as long as they have their own shows!