New early die state (EDS) grading tier needed!

[Leothelion]

Hi everyone

With all this talk about EDS Buffs and Jeffs and for all denominations and series! I would like to see these coins graded in a special class by themselves! Unfortunately. I believe ANACS would be my choice for the grading service to do this and the reason is that thay have already established a track record for being strict with their grading. Although, they have had their sporadic inconsistencies along the way. The new EDS grading tier would be easy as a coin would need to be listed on the submission form for that tier of grading service and if it didn't pass the criterias for an EDS strike then the coin would drop to the regular grading tier but the submitter would be charged for the so called EDS tier grading and so on.

So here's the question! Should there be an EDS grading service tier for EDS strucked coins? And if so, how much would you be willing to pay for this service?

Which would make another great topic, not that you'd expect the same service for the money we're already paying but what would it take in terms of a fee to get these TGC's to take more time to grade a coin especially for grading EDS strucked coins?

Perhaps this is not a good idea but I won't go into that for now!

 

Leo

[thebeav]

Hi Leo,

This is a pretty neat idea. Sounds like something that could work and is probably in our future. Unfortunately, all my LDS coins will end up in the dumpster.....

 

Paul

[Leothelion]

Hi Leo,

This is a pretty neat idea. Sounds like something that could work and is probably in our future. Unfortunately, all my LDS coins will end up in the dumpster.....

 

Paul

 

Paul

There's got to be an underlying reason why EDS coins aren't weeded out! It would probably make for bad business or the lack of!

 

Leo

[thebeav]

Paul

There's got to be an underlying reason why EDS coins aren't weeded out! It would probably make for bad business or the lack of!

 

Leo

 

Leo,

In many cases these coins are weeded out. Especially in a series like Jeffs (FS), Mercs (FB's), Franklins (FBL's).....etc

After all, these have to be the EDS coins of the particular producing die. It's just that this concept hasn't been recognized in all the different series as of yet.

 

Paul

[Hoot]

Hi Leo -

 

I hate to be the dissenter, but I am not fond of the idea. The reason is simply that the only people whom it would benefit would be the TPGs and not collectors. Collectors who buy sight-unseen are going to get what they get - a market graded coin that, on average, is average for the grade. Those who want better than this are going to study the series they collect and begin to work and re-work their collection until they are satisfied with what they've got. We simply don't need the TPGs making a designation on an insert for early (EDS), middle (MDS), or late die state (LDS). And as for dealer benefit, I think that top-notch dealers, i.e., those who are astute to the coins in their possession, already know to top a coin's price off a bit if it is an exceptional example.

 

Something that is going to drive me nuts: Struck, not strucked, is the past participle of strike, which is to deliver a blow of force to an object. There is no such word as "strucked," although "strucken" is an arcane form of the past participle for the transitive verb implying the action "to have been struck." The modern transitive verb is simply "struck." Okay, so I'm anal.

 

Back to TPGs... I have had no better luck with ANACS than NGC or PCGS for grading nickels. I hope that none of them adopt the practice of distinguishing die states, as it implies that die state is somehow independent of grade. I prefer it to be one of the factors that is included in grade. I agree with you that die state is important to pay attention to, but it's best to have the onus of that recognition on the mind of the collector.

 

Hoot

[wingedliberty-migration]

Its an excellent idea, but whether the services will go for it is a different story.

[Leothelion]

Hi Leo -

 

Something that is going to drive me nuts: Struck, not strucked, is the past participle of strike, which is to deliver a blow of force to an object. There is no such word as "strucked," although "strucken" is an arcane form of the past participle for the transitive verb implying the action "to have been struck." The modern transitive verb is simply "struck." Okay, so I'm anal.

 

Hoot

 

Hey Hoot

That's why you're the author!

 

Actually, I've always known the blessed word was mispelled! It's just that when I say the word strucked, I don't end the word with an "-ed" but rather with a "t" sound. I pronounce the word with only one syllable, not two! This is probably where you got confused! Just say or think the word out with one syllable and you'll do alright Hoot! Struck, struct, it's more like struckt but with a "ked". But thanks for the heads up anyway!

 

Leo

[Hoot]

Hi Leo -

 

Something that is going to drive me nuts: Struck, not strucked, is the past participle of strike, which is to deliver a blow of force to an object. There is no such word as "strucked," although "strucken" is an arcane form of the past participle for the transitive verb implying the action "to have been struck." The modern transitive verb is simply "struck." Okay, so I'm anal.

 

Hoot

 

Hey Hoot

That's why you're the author!

 

Actually, I've always known the blessed word was mispelled! It's just that when I say the word strucked, I don't end the word with an "-ed" but rather with a "t" sound. I pronounce the word with only one syllable, not two! This is probably where you got confused! Just say or think the word out with one syllable and you'll do alright Hoot! Struck, struct, it's more like struckt but with a "ked". But thanks for the heads up anyway!

 

Leo

 

A good sense of humor is always an asset!

 

Hoot

[Leothelion]

Hi Leo -

 

I hate to be the dissenter, but I am not fond of the idea. The reason is simply that the only people whom it would benefit would be the TPGs and not collectors. Collectors who buy sight-unseen are going to get what they get - a market graded coin that, on average, is average for the grade. Those who want better than this are going to study the series they collect and begin to work and re-work their collection until they are satisfied with what they've got. We simply don't need the TPGs making a designation on an insert for early (EDS), middle (MDS), or late die state (LDS). And as for dealer benefit, I think that top-notch dealers, i.e., those who are astute to the coins in their possession, already know to top a coin's price off a bit if it is an exceptional example.

 

 

Back to TPGs... I have had no better luck with ANACS than NGC or PCGS for grading nickels. I hope that none of them adopt the practice of distinguishing die states, as it implies that die state is somehow independent of grade. I prefer it to be one of the factors that is included in grade. I agree with you that die state is important to pay attention to, but it's best to have the onus of that recognition on the mind of the collector.

 

Hoot

 

All I'm suggesting is for the TGC's to take an extra few seconds to grade the coin by looking at the coin thoroughly to determine if the coin has an EDS strike! And if it's necessary to fork over an extra ten spot for the extra attention then they should do it! There should be ample room on the label for 3 more letters, "EDS"! Forget MDS amd LDS, I only care about the EDS struck coins!

But I know this is a lost cause because the sad truth is, there's no way they could get it right anyway!

 

I have had no better luck with ANACS than NGC or PCGS for grading nickels.

Hoot

90% of my nickel collection is in the ANACS holder! More ANACS coins are crossover then any other TGC. I have had little success in finding quality nickels in Pcgs and NGC slabs. This is why ANACS is the Collector's Choice!

 

Leo

[Oldtrader3]

We already have Full Torch, Full Bands, Full Bell Lines, Full Head, Full Steps, Full Shield, etc........... Where did we lose our way on using strike attributes as part of a coin's grading standard? I am aware that nickel alloys wear dies faster then other alloys, but the thought of having to resubmit all these coins for an attribute addition is making me crazy. Now we should add EDS standards? Isn't Full Step attribution kind of the same thing?

 

I already have multitudes of Roosevelt dimes and Franklin halves that predate respective FT and FBL standards. Theoretically, I could spend a fortune keeping abreast of all these changes. Where does it stop!?!?

[Leothelion]

We already have Full Torch, Full Bands, Full Bell Lines, Full Head, Full Steps, Full Shield, etc........... Where did we lose our way on using strike attributes as part of a coin's grading standard? I am aware that nickel alloys wear dies faster then other alloys, but the thought of having to resubmit all these coins for an attribute addition is making me crazy. Now we should add EDS standards? Isn't Full Step attribution kind of the same thing?

 

I already have multitudes of Roosevelt dimes and Franklin halves that predate respective FT and FBL standards. Theoretically, I could spend a fortune keeping abreast of all these changes. Where does it stop!?!?

 

OT3

You're right! Where does it end? NGC could shrink all those designations down to two; FS (Full Strike) and EDS (Early Die State)!!!

 

Mark Salzburg!! When you get this idea rolling, be sure to send my 10% in the mail!

 

Leo

 

I can be such a cad!

[TomB]

It's been like fingernails down a chalkboard for me too, Hoot!

[TomB]

Getting a little more serious here, OT3 brings up an excellent point regarding all the FT, FB, FBL, FH and FC (Full of [#@$%!!!]) coin designations that are out there. These are so ubiquitous, and incidious, that they have even infiltrated the way that certain circulated series are graded. Take as an example Barber coinage, many folks will not even think about calling a coin a VF unless it has a full LIBERTY! Some of these coins without a full LIBERTY have choice VF details throughout, yet lack this one small area of detail. Those coins are still VF to me.

[jom]

I already have multitudes of Roosevelt dimes and Franklin halves that predate respective FT and FBL standards. Theoretically, I could spend a fortune keeping abreast of all these changes. Where does it stop!?!?

 

It will never stop as long as the TPG's can coax paranoid collectors into regrading every possible attribute of a coin or possibly come up with some other items to grade.....

 

Come to think of it, I do have a pair of socks I'd like to get graded.

 

jom

[Bruceswar]

I already have multitudes of Roosevelt dimes and Franklin halves that predate respective FT and FBL standards. Theoretically, I could spend a fortune keeping abreast of all these changes. Where does it stop!?!?

 

It will never stop as long as the TPG's can coax paranoid collectors into regrading every possible attribute of a coin or possibly come up with some other items to grade.....

 

Come to think of it, I do have a pair of socks I'd like to get graded.

 

jom

 

The would come back as cleaned and holed..... Just could not resist