Where can I buy quality coins?

[Matt_dac]

This is why price sheets and guides are irrelevant in my opinion whether Gray Sheet, Numismedia, Red Book, etc.

 

The only thing that matters is supply and demand.

 

It's not that simple in niche markets. Maybe in cattle pork bellies and corn. But in hobbies, people make mistakes. And that throws off the demand side.

 

Take the peace dollar I posted above. Is that coin worth 5x retail book listing and 8-10x grey sheet? Is there a demand for common date Peace dollars in MS 65 with ugly tarnish that takes the price to 5x book? No. If someone posted that same dollar on the marketplace it would go unsold and there would be snarky comments about the asking price for it, while 10x nicer color units go unsold at half the price.

 

But someone at some point will get a spiel about how rare toned peace dollars are and how they stand behind the coin at that price and the CAC sticker and the free hat and BAM, someone will pick it up at 500$ as a throw in to make a $9500 coin purchase a nice round number.

 

Let me give you a recent personal example. I recently sold 11 PSA graded Mickey Mantle baseball cards 1960 - 1969. I received some snarky emails from people claiming the book value was X with many other sources offering the cards and I was crazy to be asking for Y. I encouraged every single one of them to go buy the cards from the sources that supposedly had the same cards/same grades for sale at price X. I'm by no means a pro but I did my homework and new darn well those cards could not be purchased - from any source I could find - for the price of X. A month later I sold the collection at the price I wanted.

 

The fact that SMR book values showed X had absolutely nothing to do with the available inventory of the cards at that time. I think this concept applies much more so for niche markets than common commodities. If the book value for an Ultra High Relief Saint Gaudens is $300,000, and you can find no coins for less than $350,000, what is the relevance of the book value?

 

I agree with the sort of collecting we do there are of course outlier deals but the most valid reference, at least for me as a novice collector, is recent sold prices.

[mumu]

This is why price sheets and guides are irrelevant in my opinion whether Gray Sheet, Numismedia, Red Book, etc.

 

The only thing that matters is supply and demand.

 

It's not that simple in niche markets. Maybe in cattle pork bellies and corn. But in hobbies, people make mistakes. And that throws off the demand side.

 

Take the peace dollar I posted above. Is that coin worth 5x retail book listing and 8-10x grey sheet? Is there a demand for common date Peace dollars in MS 65 with ugly tarnish that takes the price to 5x book? No. If someone posted that same dollar on the marketplace it would go unsold and there would be snarky comments about the asking price for it, while 10x nicer color units go unsold at half the price.

 

But someone at some point will get a spiel about how rare toned peace dollars are and how they stand behind the coin at that price and the CAC sticker and the free hat and BAM, someone will pick it up at 500$ as a throw in to make a $9500 coin purchase a nice round number.

 

Let me give you a recent personal example. I recently sold 11 PSA graded Mickey Mantle baseball cards 1960 - 1969. I received some snarky emails from people claiming the book value was X with many other sources offering the cards and I was crazy to be asking for Y. I encouraged every single one of them to go buy the cards from the sources that supposedly had the same cards/same grades for sale at price X. I'm by no means a pro but I did my homework and new darn well those cards could not be purchased - from any source I could find - for the price of X. A month later I sold the collection at the price I wanted.

 

The fact that SMR book values showed X had absolutely nothing to do with the available inventory of the cards at that time. I think this concept applies much more so for niche markets than common commodities. If the book value for an Ultra High Relief Saint Gaudens is $300,000, and you can find no coins for less than $350,000, what is the relevance of the book value?

 

I agree with the sort of collecting we do there are of course outlier deals but the most valid reference, at least for me as a novice collector, is recent sold prices.

 

Sure if you highlight ultra rarities as exceptions, youll appear to win the debate. But I didn't post a Proof Peace dollar. I posted a 1924 in MS 65. I guarantee you they are easily had under book value.

[GoldFinger1969]

Sure if you highlight ultra rarities as exceptions, youll appear to win the debate. But I didn't post a Proof Peace dollar. I posted a 1924 in MS 65. I guarantee you they are easily had under book value.

 

Define 'book value' -- Gray Sheet ? Red Book ? -- and since I'm not an expert on this, what is the book value for the coin above and what are current prices (auctions, Ebay, Gray Sheet, etc.) ? Thanks !

[USArmyParatrooper]

There is soooooo much garbage on Ebay, way overpriced junk I wouldn't pay half the current bid.

I have no problem paying the actual price for decent coins but come on. The coin shops are overpriced, auctions are full of people overpaying, and there isnt much locally. Where do go online?? I see you can bid on coins through NGC links on ebay but is there anything else?

 

Recommendations please

 

What do you mean by "the actual price for the decent coins"?

 

 

Book price

 

Book price is book price. Actual price is coin shops, online stores and closed auction prices. The very thing you're saying is too much.

 

One caveat is that actual *sales* prices are what matter, not what sellers are asking.

[GoldFinger1969]

One caveat is that actual *sales* prices are what matter, not what sellers are asking.

 

Bingo !!! (thumbs u

 

That's the key. If folks are paying it -- and if you see multiple sales at that price range -- then that IS the market. It's not a 1-off thing.

 

And if you see multiple items going off for "X" and see multiple bids for those items, then you can be pretty sure it's a competitive market.

 

Use the COMPLETED sales function on Ebay and check recent auction sales. You can also see ongoing auctions where there is activity and closing time is approaching (hours instead of days). The price may rise further, but it is often close to the final price (though for unique items you can get a last-minute bidding frenzy).

[USArmyParatrooper]

 

It's not that simple in niche markets. Maybe in cattle pork bellies and corn. But in hobbies, people make mistakes. And that throws off the demand side.

 

Take the peace dollar I posted above. Is that coin worth 5x retail book listing and 8-10x grey sheet? Is there a demand for common date Peace dollars in MS 65 with ugly tarnish that takes the price to 5x book? No. If someone posted that same dollar on the marketplace it would go unsold and there would be snarky comments about the asking price for it, while 10x nicer color units go unsold at half the price.

 

But someone at some point will get a spiel about how rare toned peace dollars are and how they stand behind the coin at that price and the CAC sticker and the free hat and BAM, someone will pick it up at 500$ as a throw in to make a $9500 coin purchase a nice round number.

 

That's why you look at multiple sales to get an idea of the trend for a particular corn and various grades. You don't just pull up a single sale and say that's the price.

[jom]

 

It's not that simple in niche markets. Maybe in cattle pork bellies and corn. But in hobbies, people make mistakes. And that throws off the demand side.

 

Take the peace dollar I posted above. Is that coin worth 5x retail book listing and 8-10x grey sheet? Is there a demand for common date Peace dollars in MS 65 with ugly tarnish that takes the price to 5x book? No. If someone posted that same dollar on the marketplace it would go unsold and there would be snarky comments about the asking price for it, while 10x nicer color units go unsold at half the price.

 

But someone at some point will get a spiel about how rare toned peace dollars are and how they stand behind the coin at that price and the CAC sticker and the free hat and BAM, someone will pick it up at 500$ as a throw in to make a $9500 coin purchase a nice round number.

 

That's why you look at multiple sales to get an idea of the trend for a particular corn and various grades. You don't just pull up a single sale and say that's the price.

 

It can go even farther than that. I've recently looked up sales at Heritage and at Coinfacts for a particular Bust Quarter. The prices between the two were WAY off. It turns out CF must have been quoting a certain Browning variety because the sales for those at Heritage were far higher than the other Browning numbered CBQs. Yet for some reason CF wants to quote that as the going price.

 

This also happens with coins with very good or great eye appeal. They sometime go for a lot more than quote prices in a grade. That's where auction photos are a great help.

 

BTW, I also keep a database (Excel file with photos) of the coins series I'm interested in. I don't keep the auctions mostly since they are readily available online (except for stupid Bowers who screwed up their site). I mostly take online dealers sites (I'll note whether it's just an asking price) but also follow eBay sales when I can...

 

jom

[mumu]

Sure if you highlight ultra rarities as exceptions, youll appear to win the debate. But I didn't post a Proof Peace dollar. I posted a 1924 in MS 65. I guarantee you they are easily had under book value.

 

Define 'book value' -- Gray Sheet ? Red Book ? -- and since I'm not an expert on this, what is the book value for the coin above and what are current prices (auctions, Ebay, Gray Sheet, etc.) ? Thanks !

 

 

Book value is more of a token term. Is there an actual book? Maybe for some. If someone said market value would you ask which market? Its just a generalization with an approximation for price. I can probably pull up 50 auctions showing a 1924 ms 65 Peace dollar selling for between 120 and 150$. Somewhere in there is the "book".

[coinOnomics-migration]

apropo to the title, rare coins

[mumu]

apropo to the title, rare coins

 

What a coincidence, youre all over that infamous threat ATS, Spirit.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqctYOkfSVk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUCsmd9oNMIUCLdSLrAZJgXw

 

 

[AnkurJ]

Quality coins can be found in many different places. But keep in mind that quality coins go for quality money.

[RWB]

Ricky and Lucy Ricardo might know. They live upstairs.