• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Toned in the Holder ???

32 posts in this topic

Havent seen these colors or pattern on a slabbed Peace $ before... especially not PCGS plastic.

 

Ive always heard that it was possible to tone a coin while it is in an old PCGS rattler holder. I wonder if that is what happened to this coin...

 

Thoughts ?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1923-pcgs-ms-64-rattler-peace-dollar-monster-rainbow-colorful-toning-toned-/231162057759?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item35d255141f

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure if it was gassed or just toned, yet I feel it was white in the late 1980's.

 

It's not attractive and I'm surprised how many offers it's received...

 

Then again you can't teach someone to have taste in coins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking again I'm wondering if it's just improperly rinsed dip residue that turned?

 

If so all the blue spots are nearly toxic and in time will eat into the coins surface if not properly neutralized.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had heard of a coin doctor back in the day where they loved to use rattlers as they were so much easier to gas up. I personally believe this one has been gassed up but again, that's just my own opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had heard of a coin doctor back in the day where they loved to use rattlers as they were so much easier to gas up. I personally believe this one has been gassed up but again, that's just my own opinion.

 

This other coin certainly supports this theory IMO

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1881-s-pcgs-ms-64-rattler-monster-rainbow-toned-colorful-toning/231162275416?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131230161411%26meid%3D4939711546300089631%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D20131230161411%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D231162057759

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

$_57.JPG$_57.JPG

 

Thats very interesting. I didnt look through the inventory so I never saw the Morgan but those two coins are very similar.

 

I dont know enough about Morgans so I cant say whether that toning is unusual or not but for the Peace $... juiced or not its definitely unusual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had heard of a coin doctor back in the day where they loved to use rattlers as they were so much easier to gas up. I personally believe this one has been gassed up but again, that's just my own opinion.

 

 

I doubt if it was "back in the day".

The above happened with a real doctor who got bored (or whatever) and decided to try gassing the early holders (rattler). This was 6-7-8 years ago, or whatever, and he was caught because people noticed him posting pics of his coins, all with stories, and then noticed the same exact certs which were purchased on ebay shortly before....and where blast white.

 

If I recall, it was morgan dollars...I don't recall any others. Big brouhaha and fun ensued (note dripping sarcasm at the last point).

 

This was all mentioned on the PCGS boards...maybe over here as well, but I don't recall as much on here as it was a PCGS member who was busted doing it by another PCGS forum member.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the photos are juiced at all.

 

KeyLargo Rare Coins was started by Shane (Kryptonitecomics) but those photos don't look like his. They are way too dark and that orange is very vibrant for a Peace Dollar. Furthermore, he doesn't ever use sideways slab shots. I don't think they are his photos and I do think they have seen a saturation adjustment. That said, the toning looks very unusual for a PCGS slabbed Peace Dollar & Morgan Dollar.

 

Btw, whomever it is just posted a thread about these coins in the Money Marketplace:

 

Monster peace dollar and morgan on the bay

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the photos are juiced at all.

 

KeyLargo Rare Coins was started by Shane (Kryptonitecomics) but those photos don't look like his. They are way too dark and that orange is very vibrant for a Peace Dollar. Furthermore, he doesn't ever use sideways slab shots. I don't think they are his photos and I do think they have seen a saturation adjustment. That said, the toning looks very unusual for a PCGS slabbed Peace Dollar & Morgan Dollar.

 

Btw, whomever it is just posted a thread about these coins in the Money Marketplace:

 

Monster peace dollar and morgan on the bay

 

I am sure Shane will clear this up more but he has stated in the past that he partnered with key largo. He did NOT 'start' key largo rare coins. That was a joint venture that parted.

 

So, yes, it is someone else taking the pictures and doing the business

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the photos are juiced at all.

 

KeyLargo Rare Coins was started by Shane (Kryptonitecomics) but those photos don't look like his. They are way too dark and that orange is very vibrant for a Peace Dollar. Furthermore, he doesn't ever use sideways slab shots. I don't think they are his photos and I do think they have seen a saturation adjustment. That said, the toning looks very unusual for a PCGS slabbed Peace Dollar & Morgan Dollar.

 

Btw, whomever it is just posted a thread about these coins in the Money Marketplace:

 

Monster peace dollar and morgan on the bay

 

I am sure Shane will clear this up more but he has stated in the past that he partnered with key largo. He did NOT 'start' key largo rare coins. That was a joint venture that parted.

 

So, yes, it is someone else taking the pictures and doing the business

 

I remember his partner being Chris (RCToners), but his photos were also much better than those in the E-Bay listings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had heard of a coin doctor back in the day where they loved to use rattlers as they were so much easier to gas up. I personally believe this one has been gassed up but again, that's just my own opinion.
I doubt if it was "back in the day".

The above happened with a real doctor who got bored (or whatever) and decided to try gassing the early holders (rattler). This was 6-7-8 years ago, or whatever, and he was caught because people noticed him posting pics of his coins, all with stories, and then noticed the same exact certs which were purchased on ebay shortly before....and where blast white.

If I recall, it was morgan dollars...I don't recall any others. Big brouhaha and fun ensued (note dripping sarcasm at the last point).

This was all mentioned on the PCGS boards...maybe over here as well, but I don't recall as much on here as it was a PCGS member who was busted doing it by another PCGS forum member.

For most people around here, 7 or 8 years ago is back in the day! :) But yea, that's the story I recall. Don't remember the names but it was a quick gassing of white coins.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had heard of a coin doctor back in the day where they loved to use rattlers as they were so much easier to gas up. I personally believe this one has been gassed up but again, that's just my own opinion.
I doubt if it was "back in the day".

The above happened with a real doctor who got bored (or whatever) and decided to try gassing the early holders (rattler). This was 6-7-8 years ago, or whatever, and he was caught because people noticed him posting pics of his coins, all with stories, and then noticed the same exact certs which were purchased on ebay shortly before....and where blast white.

If I recall, it was morgan dollars...I don't recall any others. Big brouhaha and fun ensued (note dripping sarcasm at the last point).

This was all mentioned on the PCGS boards...maybe over here as well, but I don't recall as much on here as it was a PCGS member who was busted doing it by another PCGS forum member.

For most people around here, 7 or 8 years ago is back in the day! :) But yea, that's the story I recall. Don't remember the names but it was a quick gassing of white coins.

 

I saw images of one or two of those coins and the toning was quite obviously artificial and not of the appearance which would command any price premium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a really nice looking Merc selling along with those two but due to the color on these I passed on it too. A very clear example of AT in the holder. As to how it happens I really don't know. I read somewhere they just blew a chemical dust into the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw images of one or two of those coins and the toning was quite obviously artificial and not of the appearance which would command any price premium.

 

Well the auction listing has changed and bids are now over $100.00 so several people think this toning is worth a premium.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231162293490

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a thought:

 

Silver coins that have toned naturally in TPG plastic holders usually show a distinctive pattern. The gap in the holder is commonly a small arc with the balance of the holder more tightly sealed. As sulfur, chlorine or other contaminants enter the holder, they react first with the metal closest to the hole, and then further out. This creates a fan-shaped pattern that has the darkest toning close to the rim. Density and color change as one views the fan further from the hole.

 

The coins pictured, have unusually even toning across both sides. This is darkest near the rim and lighter toward the center. This would be expected where sufficient external pressure were applied to force contaminants into the holder from the entire circumference. The easiest way to do this is to place the slab in a vacuum chamber, remove the air, and then pump in air that has had a little sulfur added. To stop the toning, just evacuate the chamber, and pump in pure nitrogen.

 

This can be done in any high school chemistry lab.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not my coins...and yes I used to be partners with Key Largo Rare Coins but haven't been so for at least a couple of years. Chis is the owner and I know these coins where just purchased by him at a local show in Portland yesterday.

 

When he first showed me images my first reaction was also AT....thought I don't know if something was done to them in the holder or it's an improper storage issue etc. I am surprised they made it into holders if they were toned like that when submitted but since I don't know where the coins have resided for the past 30 years everything we are all saying is pure speculation. (thumbs u

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yikes look at the assumptions running wild :)

 

1. Shane did not start keylargorarecoins as stated, Shane and I were business partners several years ago

2. Images are not juiced, sold my sigma 150 macro lens several years ago and I am currently shooting with the stock D-90 lens hence the blurred image, lack of focus and overall unappealing image.

3. Coins were both just purchased, Peace dollar was purchased at a local show and the Morgan through a local dealer.

 

Overall thoughts on the matter,

While both appear similar I have seen morgans tone like that previously and will try and find some images. I am always at a loss with the conspiracy theories when it comes to this stuff as I think it is such a stretch. I think if it was so easy to just gas slabs you would see them every where? If these were both in modern holders people would just be saying pcgs got it wrong, I think if someone did doctor the coins the easy thing to do would have been just get them in new holders for a few bucks. I threw them up for auction and I personally feel the market can decide on price, I have had numerous offers in the 300 range on both coins so someone thinks they are worth a premium. I respect the opinions of the people posting in this thread so far but careful judging to much about a coin from a image. Any time something wild or crazy toned comes on the market this is the first reaction and its always the same so I just dont put much thought into fighting it or defending it and I will just let the auctions run and the market can decide. I appreciate all the opinions

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KLRC, I don't believe anyone here was accusing you of toning the coins. They do both have similar toning patterns, and I believe one person speculated that they were probably toned together. I would have ventured the same and would have thought you got them from the same place. Best of luck on your auctions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yikes look at the assumptions running wild :)

 

1. Shane did not start keylargorarecoins as stated, Shane and I were business partners several years ago

2. Images are not juiced, sold my sigma 150 macro lens several years ago and I am currently shooting with the stock D-90 lens hence the blurred image, lack of focus and overall unappealing image.

3. Coins were both just purchased, Peace dollar was purchased at a local show and the Morgan through a local dealer.

 

Overall thoughts on the matter,

While both appear similar I have seen morgans tone like that previously and will try and find some images. I am always at a loss with the conspiracy theories when it comes to this stuff as I think it is such a stretch. I think if it was so easy to just gas slabs you would see them every where? If these were both in modern holders people would just be saying pcgs got it wrong, I think if someone did doctor the coins the easy thing to do would have been just get them in new holders for a few bucks. I threw them up for auction and I personally feel the market can decide on price, I have had numerous offers in the 300 range on both coins so someone thinks they are worth a premium. I respect the opinions of the people posting in this thread so far but careful judging to much about a coin from a image. Any time something wild or crazy toned comes on the market this is the first reaction and its always the same so I just dont put much thought into fighting it or defending it and I will just let the auctions run and the market can decide. I appreciate all the opinions

 

Chris,

 

My bad on #1 but you can hardly blame me, just going by what I have read in the past.

 

Kryptonitecomics proudly announces the launching of Key Largo Rare Coins!!!

 

Thank you for clearing up the mystery about the images as well. Good luck with your auctions.

 

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

100% AT toned in the holder garbage.

 

 

:roflmao:

 

JCat - No need to hold back. Tell us what you really think about the coins... :grin:

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yikes look at the assumptions running wild :)

 

1. Shane did not start keylargorarecoins as stated, Shane and I were business partners several years ago

2. Images are not juiced, sold my sigma 150 macro lens several years ago and I am currently shooting with the stock D-90 lens hence the blurred image, lack of focus and overall unappealing image.

3. Coins were both just purchased, Peace dollar was purchased at a local show and the Morgan through a local dealer.

 

Overall thoughts on the matter,

While both appear similar I have seen morgans tone like that previously and will try and find some images. I am always at a loss with the conspiracy theories when it comes to this stuff as I think it is such a stretch. I think if it was so easy to just gas slabs you would see them every where? If these were both in modern holders people would just be saying pcgs got it wrong, I think if someone did doctor the coins the easy thing to do would have been just get them in new holders for a few bucks. I threw them up for auction and I personally feel the market can decide on price, I have had numerous offers in the 300 range on both coins so someone thinks they are worth a premium. I respect the opinions of the people posting in this thread so far but careful judging to much about a coin from a image. Any time something wild or crazy toned comes on the market this is the first reaction and its always the same so I just dont put much thought into fighting it or defending it and I will just let the auctions run and the market can decide. I appreciate all the opinions

 

Chris,

 

My bad on #1 but you can hardly blame me, just going by what I have read in the past.

 

Kryptonitecomics proudly announces the launching of Key Largo Rare Coins!!!

 

Thank you for clearing up the mystery about the images as well. Good luck with your auctions.

 

Paul

 

 

Paul no worries

Link to comment
Share on other sites

100% AT toned in the holder garbage.

 

Coming from someone who has a bunch of artificially, dipped out peace dollars in his collection. Kind of the pot calling the kettle black dont ya thing?

 

First of all, I wasn't disparaging you, I was disparaging the coin.

 

Secondly, I am a fan of blast white and toned coins. I've owned my fair share of both. I know natural when I see it.

 

I would be happy to show you the 3 STAR Peace Dollar blast white coins in my collection, so you can judged their blinding, unadulterated luster in-hand.

 

The Peace Dollar in your auction, is, in my educated opinion, unnatural.

Link to comment
Share on other sites