Anyone know the "stability" of conservation?

[Count_Erfit]

I just returned an NGC coin that I....think.....was previously "conserved." How is stability of conservation for those of you who have done it?

I had a nickel conserved and here are the results.

 

I sold the coin immediately (commensurately discounted) to a dealer who KNEW what had happened to the coin.

 

The latest one I returned (MS63 seated dollar) had just a hint of peckery flyspecky "texture" on the reverse field and a small glop of stuff on the obverse. It "looked" like something ...had...been there.

 

I hope this is something NGC is watching very closely because a rash of recurring "stuff" could diminish the whole product as no one knows which have and have not been conserved.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I can not give you precise information, but I have had some of my coins turn in the slabs. I do not know if they were conserved or lightly dipped, but they were somewhat toned when I bought them and darkened over time.

[Count_Erfit]

OT3.....Yeah, same here. In fact that's one reason I am not a fan of "red" copper in slabs.

But what concerns me is not "toning" but return of ....goop. Sure it can be gotten off, but if it doesn't STAY off, ya got a real problem.

 

AND if it is widespread and everyone knows the only service to slab former problems is NGC, it could be a serious problem for the acceptance of NGC coins just from the uncertainty. The first thing my ....wife..... said when I was hemming and hawing over the coin I got (and returned) yesterday was, "Oh, it's in an NGC slab."

 

I like NGC and prefer their service to some "others" but would sure hate to see the service "tarnished" by the uncertainty of appearance remaining attractive.

 

Might be time for a real control study of various "glopped" coins for a few years.

 

Sure hope this isn't the case.

 

[Elcontador]

Red copper in slabs I think is fine, as long the particular coin has not been recently holdered.

[John Maben]

I really question the consistency of your imaging. The coin seems to have acquired a golden toning after conservation, which is, impossible. NCS does not tone coins...

[truthteller]

From my understanding, conservation has several methods, one form includes dipping, another form uses a solution to soften hardened surface materials for removal. Most of the chemicals used are inert to the surface of the coin, but may affect toning or surface contaminants. I personally have used NCS with mixed results. The service does not apply chemicals which will tone or recolor the metal, so stability isn't really an issue. Stability of color is of concern for newly artificially toned coins, whereby the chemical reaction with surface metal continues long after the coin is holdered.

 

 

TRUTH

[Hoot]

To follow up with what truth said, when you have a coin conserved, you remove a very thin layer of metal, thus exposing "fresh" metal beneath. The layer is thin enough that conditions that may be affecting surfaces more deeply, such as fly specks, may not fully disappear and may continue to change over time. All other metal must simply undergo the natural processes of toning that any freshly exposed metal would. In the modern NGC slab, this might be fairly slow, since they are now air-tight, from what I understand. So if you liberate one of these coins from its slab, it will tone according to the conditions that it's exposed to.

 

In the case of your buffalo nickel, if the dark spot in front of the Indian was the result of active surface oxidation due to an odd metal mixture in the planchet's alloy, then it will re-tone similarly (but not exactly the same) to what it was in the first place.

 

Hoot

[Count_Erfit]

truthteller....I also question the consistency of my images. Never seem to come out quite the same and I "managed" the images to emphasize the effect.

 

But the day I got the coin back, it was VERY differently toned. The reverse and obverse looked like different coins. Very bright and ....s o r t a.....goldie toning on obverse.

 

In the ensuing months (I hadn't LOOKED at the thing) the corrosion (?) returned and the coin was no longer the same color as when it came back. It was (as poorly shown in my images) going back to a greyish although still brighter color than originally submitted.

 

I no longer own the thing and am very careful now in examining NGC slabbed coins.

 

It's this new "suspicion" that worries me about the stability factor.

 

If, as I imagined (hoped) a conservation technique existed that was "secret" and lasting, well...howdy do. But now I am taking more of a "be careful here" approach.

 

Only the old saw, "time will tell" is appropriate now, but I would sure like to see some ....testing....done.

 

[Count_Erfit]

Hoot....that's my main concern. Certainly if an odd planchet was prone to tone in a certain way, there would be an expectation of continuance.

 

BUT......it came back nearly GONE and how is one to know how much time has passed since the conservation? Had I sold it immediately upon receipt back, I could have got a few hundred dollars more from anyone.

[truthteller]

I would agree that conservation will change the appearance of the coin. I've seen the "glossy" effect on other conserved coins; usually, it's the stripping away of the original patina, which cannot be restored. Nickel and copper are difficult metals to conserve properly, and any type of corrosion within the coin tends to continue with or without conservation. I would be hesitant to purchase any copper coin that has been conserved, cleaned or dipped in any way because no one knows what the coin will look like in 5 years. In addition, many copper and nickel coins do not "travel" well, meaning traveling in a dealer's inventory from a dry region of the country, to a humid region, such as the southern state, constantly. Furthermore, there is constant crack out of the coin exposing the copper and nickel coins to constant refresh of humid or dry air. A copper coin or nickel coin which has remained in a dry South Dakota collection, could then be sent for grading in semi humid southern CA, only to be sold to a dealer who lives in very humid FL, exacerbating the problem.

 

 

TRUTH

[Oldtrader3]

C_E: I have a couple of fairly expensive MS65RD cents that have gone RB since I bought them 2-3 years ago. One is NGC and the other is PCGS encapsulated. Also, the climate here in Washington is not helping the problem.

[Oldtrader3]

Here is a 1979-S T2, PCGS Kennedy PR69DCAM that was snow white when I bought it four years ago with no visible haze. Now, it has started to markedly tone (see attachment). The coin has been sitting in a plastic PCGS box with (19) other DCAM coins, for (4) years. This coin has toned and the other (19) have not. Go figure!

[coinman1794]

From my first-hand experiences, there is no stability with conservation. There is no guarrantee whatsoever that a coin will be stable. I have had a sac dollar, conserved on one side only, that turned dark on that side afterwards. I have even had a coin conserved by NCS that turned in its holders before it returned to me! A coin was dipped white by NCS and over the 48 hours it took to get back to me through the mail, it was covered with bright red/orange dip residue etchings! I had to resubmit it and it was redipped and downgraded.