1834 Large Capped Bust $5 gold

[BillJones]

I'm a bit bored waiting for the windshield guy to come put some sealing goo in the spot where a stone from big scary truck hit my windshield and made a hole. I hope he can fix this one. Last time he said that another hole I had was too small.

 

At any rate, here is an American coin I'm sure that a lot of you have never seen, an 1834 Large Capped Bust half eagle. This is one of the rarest of all U.S. type coins.

 

So how would you grade it? I've get my ideas that I'll share in a while after (I hope) there is some discussion.

 

[Coindude]

Bill that is an incredible coin dripping with luster. That being said there appears to be some slight rub on the high points which could be strike weakness just to the left of the ear in the hair. There might also be some light rub on the high points in the cap. Could be the picture as I don't see any rub on the reverse. Could also be the classic drawer friction. There are some hairlines on the coin which I believe are exaggerated by the angle of lighting.

 

All that said it's either a 58 or a 63.

[brg5658]

I suck at grading gold. Most gold in MS63 holders looks like beat up AU53 to me. That being said, I guess I'd say MS62 or so?

 

Please don't be offended if this is low. I honestly have no clue.

[BillJones]

I am not offended by any comments on this piece unless you say it is a counterfeit. Then I'd say you are crazy. I'll give you a bit of dealer opinion on it, and my view of it after some others have commented.

[MarkFeld]

Based on what I can see in the images, my starting grade is MS63. And, while the odds are probably against me on this, I would grade it higher, before I would grade it lower than that.

 

Regardless of the assigned grade, it certainly looks like a very nice coin.

[L1ncolnF4n]

63

[BillJones]

I will wait to see if the night crowd has any comments and give you my perspectives on this piece tomorrow. Thanks to all who have responded.

[Guest Golddog3]

64 but most gold looks good to me

[$ilverHawk]

Beautiful Half Eagle. I checked quite a lot of commentaries and listings. Seems to be standard 4. Lots of field luster from the pics. Coin has solid claim to MS. However, there does appear to be some high point rub. I don't think NGC was forgiving on this coin.

 

NGC AU58. Carl MS63.

 

Carl

[Mark T]

I am in the Au 58 – MS 62 camp . I will say Ms 62 .

[mikew148]

I'm going to say AU-58, Plain 4 variety - B-6499. Appears to be the slightest rub, could be cabinet friction I guess. She certainly has retained her luster.

 

The horizontal hairlines look like there might have been a slight cleaning, hard to tell from pics

.

 

Beautiful Coin - Thanks for sharing.

 

 

 

[Coinbuf]

Sure looks MS overall I'm going to say MS64 just to be different

[FishyOne]

I'm going to say AU-58, Plain 4 variety - B-6499. Appears to be the slightest rub, could be cabinet friction I guess. She certainly has retained her luster.

 

The horizontal hairlines look like there might have been a slight cleaning, hard to tell from pics

.

 

Beautiful Coin - Thanks for sharing.

 

 

 

It looks to me like a light cleaning as well. Beautiful nonetheless, it has slider written on it. I assume it graded low MS as in 62 or 63. Thanks for sharing. Bust gold is always nice to see!

[Dudley the 1st]

Sure looks MS overall I'm going to say MS64 just to be different

 

I'm, with you on this, 64.

[BillJones]

Thanks to all of you who responded to this post. Here is a bit more about this piece.

 

NGC graded this MS-61. I bought it at the 2011 winter FUN auction. There were three examples of this coin in the auction, which was unusual since this piece is quite scare with about 50 examples of this die variety (1834 BD-1) known. Dannreuther estimates the population to be 30 to 40.

 

NGC marked one of the three pieces offered was marked as "cleaned" and graded the other two MS-61. Both of the MS-61 graded pieces had also been lightly cleaned in my opinion, but I thought this piece was the better of the two, and quite acceptable to me at a certain price level. One dealer, who is an expert in early coinage, did not like any of them and advised me to keep my powder dry, but as a collector sometimes you have to weigh the pluses and minuses. I had seen examples of this type, not much better than this, priced at $100,000, which was WAY more than I wanted to pay. Let's face it. The design is not very pretty, even in high grade.

 

I bid on the piece live instead of on the Internet because I wanted to see how the auction was going from a personal perspective. For the other coin I bought in the sale I placed an Internet bid, and let Heritage bid for me despite the fact that I was in the audience. The price realized, including the buyers' fee, was between the Gray Sheet EF-40 and AU-50 bids, which made this coin a bargain IMO.

 

The big question for some collectors who are married to PCGS is, will it cross? I'd say that the answer to that is dicey. The cleaning could have it end up in a genuine holder, or it might make an AU grade. My grade for the piece is AU-55.

 

[Coindude]

Thanks for your honest insight on this coin Bill. Greatly appreciated.

[BillJones]

Here is a surface comparison with an original surface MS-61 graded half eagle with this piece which has a bit of work. Here is an 1834 Reduced Size Capped Bust half eagle, which much more common than the previous type. The larger rarer coins were issued until August 1834, then Thomas Hart Benton got the legislation through for the later type.

 

1834 Classic Head half eagle - much more common type

 

 

1834 Large Size Capped Bust half eagle - scarce to rare type

 

[johnny9434]

ms 62. jmo

[wdrob]

Thanks for your honest insight on this coin Bill. Greatly appreciated.

 

I, too, like the way you presented that and I learned a great amount from reading up on it after you posted the summary. Thanks

[coinman1794]

My first impression was of a dipped out slider that was capable of grading anywhere from AU58 to MS62. I now see that it was graded MS61, and that you think it was abrasively cleaned. I am surprised it pulled off an MS61, in that case, but perhaps the pronounced rarity gave it a bump.

[Walkerfan]

I wouldn't have graded it below 62. I don't see it as an AU coin.

[mikew148]

I wouldn't have graded it below 62. I don't see it as an AU coin.

 

After Bill's detailed explanation why would you have this opinion? Bill might be conservative at AU55, I voted 58 myself, but there is a rub or two and those hairlines were not part of the minting process - it has been cleaned.

 

I'd say NGC thought it would do fine in the 61 "market".

[Dudley the 1st]

regardless, it's still a very nice tough to acquire. Nice pickup.