• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

For the love of copper
4 4

2,473 posts in this topic

On 4/22/2023 at 7:16 PM, Sandon said:

1837 Head of 1836 (plain hair cord), medium letters large cent (N7/8). I bought this one in November 1997. NGC just graded it "Uncirculated details, cleaned", but I still like it:

1837mediumletterscentobv..thumb.jpg.f97a35ee8ff1b6bb002e32bd81326f2c.jpg

1837mediumletterscentrev..thumb.jpg.d8da7ee2a41cb239af13a508d6d73e92.jpg

Would you be kind enough to translate that grade ambiguity into Sheldonese or does cleaning pre-empt assignment of a formal grade?  This is as fine an example of MS-60 that can be found.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/23/2023 at 8:35 AM, Henri Charriere said:

Would you be kind enough to translate that grade ambiguity into Sheldonese or does cleaning pre-empt assignment of a formal grade?  This is as fine an example of MS-60 that can be found.

  Grading services don't assign numerical grades to coins that they determine to be "cleaned" or otherwise impaired, except that ANACS in its small holder days assigned net numerical grades after describing the impairment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/23/2023 at 1:05 PM, Sandon said:

  Grading services don't assign numerical grades to coins that they determine to be "cleaned" or otherwise impaired, except that ANACS in its small holder days assigned net numerical grades after describing the impairment.

Not to be a stickler with semantics... but with Early American Copper, the term "Net Grade" has a definition.  The definition of "Net Grading" (AKA EAC Grading) is to look at a coin and discount the assigned grade (or details grade) based on the area and severity of the defect.  

I write this because ANACS does not discount the grade for the cleaning, but provides a "details" grade that is synonymous with what the grade would have been without the defect.  The amount discounted is fairly subjective and depends on how bad the defect bothers the collector. 

ANACS Example - Coin has MS60 details, but has been cleaned... the holder says, UNC Details.

EAC Example - Coin has MS60 details, but has been cleaned... EAC says, MS60 Details, Net AU50 Cleaned

 

Edited by The Neophyte Numismatist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ldhair This is the 1928 C-3.  There are three varieties of this date.  The C-2 is a pretty fun one, because it only has 12 stars (Someone went a little heavy on the die polishing, and possibly the whiskey)... it may be a fun one to add if you don't have it already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/22/2023 at 4:16 PM, Sandon said:

1837 Head of 1836 (plain hair cord), medium letters large cent (N7/8). I bought this one in November 1997. NGC just graded it "Uncirculated details, cleaned", but I still like it:

1837mediumletterscentobv..thumb.jpg.f97a35ee8ff1b6bb002e32bd81326f2c.jpg

1837mediumletterscentrev..thumb.jpg.d8da7ee2a41cb239af13a508d6d73e92.jpg

I haven’t read anything about the 1837 head of the 1836 before. Is that rarer than the head of 1837?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/22/2023 at 7:16 PM, Sandon said:

1837 Head of 1836 (plain hair cord), medium letters large cent (N7/8). I bought this one in November 1997. NGC just graded it "Uncirculated details, cleaned", but I still like it:

1837mediumletterscentobv..thumb.jpg.f97a35ee8ff1b6bb002e32bd81326f2c.jpg

1837mediumletterscentrev..thumb.jpg.d8da7ee2a41cb239af13a508d6d73e92.jpg

With the Sword of Damocles dangling over my head by a hair, this may be a reckless, risky observation to make, but the cleaner involved only enhanced the intricate, well-defined details of your coin and did not do anything to detract from its innate attractiveness. A true professional! You wouldn't happen to have his name and number?  🤣

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/24/2023 at 7:38 PM, robec1347 said:

I haven’t read anything about the 1837 head of the 1836 before. Is that rarer than the head of 1837?

  There is no large cent subtype referred to as the "Head of 1837." Using the Redbook's nomenclature, the two obverse subtypes used in 1837 are (1) the "Head of 1836" a.k.a. "Plain [Hair] Cord" that was first introduced at some point in 1835 to replace the original Matron Head design that went back to 1816 and (2) the "Head of 1838" a.k.a. "Beaded [Hair] Cord" that was introduced at some point in 1837. The "Head of 1836" was used on some cents dated 1835, all dated 1836, many dated 1837, and the scarce 1839 over 6 (N1).  The "Head of 1838" was also used on many 1837 dated cents, all dated 1838, and some 1839s. (Two additional subtypes, the "Booby Head" and the "Silly Head" were also used only in 1839, and the first "Braided Hair" type style was also introduced in 1839.)  Collectively, all of the 1835-39 subtypes except for the 1835s with the original Matron Head and the 1839 Braided Hair, are referred to as the "Modified Matron Heads" or "Young Heads". None of these subtypes is rare, although some specific Newcomb die varieties collected by specialists are. The 1837 with Head of 1836 is somewhat scarcer with a small letters reverse than with a medium letters reverse as on mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/24/2023 at 6:54 PM, Sandon said:

  There is no large cent subtype referred to as the "Head of 1837." Using the Redbook's nomenclature, the two obverse subtypes used in 1837 are (1) the "Head of 1836" a.k.a. "Plain [Hair] Cord" that was first introduced at some point in 1835 to replace the original Matron Head design that went back to 1816 and (2) the "Head of 1838" a.k.a. "Beaded [Hair] Cord" that was introduced at some point in 1837. The "Head of 1836" was used on some cents dated 1835, all dated 1836, many dated 1837, and the scarce 1839 over 6 (N1).  The "Head of 1838" was also used on many 1837 dated cents, all dated 1838, and some 1839s. (Two additional subtypes, the "Booby Head" and the "Silly Head" were also used only in 1839, and the first "Braided Hair" type style was also introduced in 1839.)  Collectively, all of the 1835-39 subtypes except for the 1835s with the original Matron Head and the 1839 Braided Hair, are referred to as the "Modified Matron Heads" or "Young Heads". None of these subtypes is rare, although some specific Newcomb die varieties collected by specialists are. The 1837 with Head of 1836 is somewhat scarcer with a small letters reverse than with a medium letters reverse as on mine.

Thanks for this info. I was confused after seeing Coin Facts comparing the 1837 head differences. They show the 1837 as the head of 1837. 

327F5A22-0863-47FE-B806-097705B26EF1.thumb.jpeg.16fe87bbbd2aabd8de0c3ce9a52993b0.jpeg

Edited by robec1347
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
4 4