Another fake 93S feel free to nuke.

[morganguru]

Started a thread about it ATS, just wanted those here to be informed. Spacing is off, the 1 in the date doesn't jive. Not on my watch!

 

ebay93s

 

heritage link

[BruceS]

Bad copy. They even tried to match a check blemish. Albeit badly. Reported. Lucky for the bidders it a long auction. Should give enough time to pull.

[morganguru]

I hope you also reported the 09S VDB being offered by the same seller. Thanks for reporting.

[Keigwin]

Reported both. They will be nuked.

Lance.

[jpcienkus]

Is it just me, but does the Eagles head on the reverse look odd? The beak doesn't look right, nor does the positioning.

 

 

[morganguru]

<<Is it just me, but does the Eagles head on the reverse look odd? The beak doesn't look right, nor does the positioning. >>

 

It stinks of rotting Mackerel left in the live well for a month, with temps over 100F. Please report.

[AuMorgan82110-migration]

I have just started really looking at these fakes you guys put up for nuking since I had a coin dealer tell me he thinks my 32-D quarter is an altered mintmark. It is very informative to see what these guys are doing to try and fake out the numismatic community. Thanks for keeping a watchful eye on the scum filled bay. By the way, is it just me, or is that S tucked a little too close to the bottom of the wreath?

[RWB]

The "wear" on the fake 1893-S was created by rubbing the fake across a table a few times. Natural wear occurs in a very different pattern. Also, the fake holder says "AU 50" which really means EF and the fake coin does not have nearly the circulation wear one would expect.

[wdrob]

Did no one else notice that the guy selling the fake item is a Policeman?

 

 

 

 

 

[Conder101]

The 1893 S dollar is gone, the 09 SVDB shouldn't be around much longer.

[wdrob]

Yeah I got in touch with the guy and he has pulled them. Said he didn't know they were fake. Asked how to find out and I steered him here to ask and learn before posting anything else for sale. But he did say that he had a inbox full of emails from eBay and other I guess.

[morganguru]

<<Did no one else notice that the guy selling the fake item is a Policeman?>>

 

The pic means nothing, anyone could upload any image they want. Who knows maybe he is a cop. What's important is that another fake has been nuked.

[mac3330-migration]

To all I am the one that you are all talking about. Please go back to my feedback and look at the other coins that I sold and see if they are real or fake. I have no idea, these two are the only ones I have ever dealt with that were graded and "slabbed" what ever that means. Yes I am a cop I would appreciate my photo removed as I have changed it on ebay. I don't want my rep on ebay damaged. All I know about coins is all my life I have gotten my collection from pocket change and from my dad's store's when I was a little boy. I understand about the grading as far as the condition of the coin. All my coins have gone into books throughout my life. Why do people put them in plastic? I have always enjoyed being able to get them out, look at them, appreciate the beauty and wonder at what famous people's hands they had been through. I know about counterfeit bills but never considered someone could counterfeit coins. How do they come by the dies, it seems that the time alone would not be worth the effort. I have bought coins in the past that I needed for my books that were not to expensive. The ones I have sold of my Father's I did not need and did not have enough to build a full book because the ones that I would need to complete them would be cost prohibitive. I could not afford to pay that much for a coin and figured that it would fetch more than the others that I sold because it was graded and in plastic. The others I sold for less than $100.00 I still have some of the Morgan's that look as nice as the one in plastic, how do I go about finding out if they are real? It makes my stomach turn wondering how many of mine might be fake, although collected just from taking them out of circulation they should be okay. Right? As a kid when someone through their change on the counter to pay for something I could tell if there was a silver coin by the ring. It got to the point where I could tell you the denomination of the coin by the sound it made without seeing it. Some body please give me some direction on this and quickly so I can track down any fakes that I sold and refund the person's money. I don't do business like that. Thanks Mac

[johnny9434]

The 1893 S dollar is gone, the 09 SVDB shouldn't be around much longer.

coool

[BruceS]

Mac, do you mind if I ask where you got the coins, and do you have any recourse to return them? And welcome to the boards, you can learn alot here. also if you post a good picture of a coin in question im sure someone here can help ID it for you. good luck.

[mac3330-migration]

Bruce the fake coins were just in together with his others. My dad did not go to the trouble of putting them in books like I did, he just put most of them loose in a coffee can. Some were in cardboard holders but there were only two that were in the plastic. He just would put silver change and wheat pennies and a barrage of pocket change in these coffee cans. I did not get all that he saved through his life, he had remarried and someone in the other family took several cans after his death. How do I get a good photo, I have trouble capturing close up details with my camera. I have a fugi 500 SLR. Thanks Mac

[oldcollectorcoins]

Yeah I got in touch with the guy and he has pulled them.

 

the seller did NOT pull them. those of us reporting them got them removed. the 09-s vdb was still running well after both of them were brought to our attention.

 

i made a post about the 09-s vdb today after the 93-s was REMOVED from ebay and it was still going strong.

 

out of the hundreds i have reported, maybe 1 out of 100 gets removed by the seller. most others don't care enough to verify or even worse, don't have anyone around them educated enough to authenticate their items, including tons of local dealers. it is easy to buy/sell coins, it is difficult to be a numismatist.

 

the good thing about ebay sellers listing counterfeits, my image database is rather large ><

 

glad to see they are gone.

 

on to the next listings to nuke.

.

[morganguru]

Thanks mac3330 for having the courage to speak up. I didn't mean to come across as abrasive using the term nuke but I've reported so many listings, you become numb and don't really buy what the sellers are selling. You seem genuine and feel your pain of being burnt. This is an on going problem, every week it seems there are fakes and pirated images to report and this is just concentrating on the 93S and 89CC Morgans, two major key dates that the counterfeiters often try to replicate. Other counterfeited coins are 1909S VDB and 1914D cents, 1916D dimes and 1932D quarters. Sorry to hear about the passing of your father, God bless him. There is an endless amount of knowledge here and on the CU forums, feel free to post your questions, someone will have an answer.

Scott

[BillJones]

I know about counterfeit bills but never considered someone could counterfeit coins. How do they come by the dies, it seems that the time alone would not be worth the effort.

 

Crooks have been counterfeiting coins for longer than they have been counterfeiting paper money because the coins have been around for a lot longer. The Chinese invented paper money, and the first paper currency issued in the western world came from the Massachusetts Bay Colony in the 1690s. Many of the counterfeit coins that were made contemporarily with the coins from "back in the day" are crude and easy to spot. The modern copies that are made to fool collectors and dealers can be much more sophisticated. Believe me the money crooks make from these counterfeits is well worth their while.

 

Where do they get the dies? Quite often they make impressions from genuine coins, and if they are sophisticated enough their copy dies can be quite good. There are also dies that are made from scratch. The Chinese are doing these, and have been doing it for quite a few years. Sadly their counterfeits are getting better, and to make matters worse they are counterfeiting the certification holders from the leading coin grading and authentication companies. This is a very real and troubling problem.

 

Currently there are lot of counterfeit Chinese made coins that are making their way into flea markets, and sadly on eBay. Those who frequent eBay are finding these fakes with disturbing regularity. Catching them takes years of handling the real thing and being able to spot counterfeits. "Certified counterfeits" in fake holders can involve looking up the serial numbers on the slabs either at the slab sites or from major auction houses like Heritage. If the coin does not match the one in the official pictures there is a strong possibility that the coin and the holder are fake.

 

[mac3330-migration]

old collector coins is right ebay pulled the auctions. I did not check any email this morning until after the feces hit the fan. All I know is there was several messages from people on ebay telling me it was fake, one from a person who wanted to buy it privately yesterday which I told him I would not do and he had emailed me again before it was pulled saying that it was up to 22,600 that he was willing to go 15,000. I never got to see what it or the penny got up to before they were pulled. When I went to bed last night the penny was like 225.00 and the morgan was 12,000.00. Needless to say I was stunned I did not know I had anything that was worth that and as my luck would have it they turned out to be fake. Wow.

 

Bill Jones thank you for the history lesson, quite impressive.

 

Now please take time to explain to me the grading and slabbing, is that the right slang? Why do it, what is the process, where do you have it done and how much does it cost? I have a complete book of Ben Franklins that I have collected through the years that are in descent shape. It seems it would be hard to display/store a collection that was individually cased in plastic. I am rather overwhelmed/dismayed by all of this.

 

You guys have a hell of a network too bad we cannot work as swiftly and efficiently in law enforcement. Good job.....Mac

[mac3330-migration]

Oh I forgot, the photos are ones that I took of the coins that I have. Which I broke out of the plastic. It weighs 1 ounce but is thicker than the others that I have...Mac

[morganguru]

A couple of NGC links on the history of the company and grading standards. TPG is short for third party grading service, such as PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG. These services encapsulate, authenticate and grade the coin in sonically sealed plastic holders, commonly called a slab. Most will agree that PCGS and NGC are the top dogs of the coin world, with ANACS right behind them. Of course it's open for interpretation.

 

history link

 

grading scale link

[mac3330-migration]

Very complicated and expensive thank you for the information....Mac

[Conder101]

I know about counterfeit bills but never considered someone could counterfeit coins. How do they come by the dies, it seems that the time alone would not be worth the effort.

Well As you saw that dollar coin was up to over $12,000 and you got a private offer if $15,000. Well once you do to all the time and effort of creating those dies, even in a slow press you can crank out 30 of those "$12,000" coins per minute. that's $360,000 per minute or $21M an hour. That's a living wage and just compensation for the time and effort put into making the dies.

[wdrob]

<<Did no one else notice that the guy selling the fake item is a Policeman?>>

 

The pic means nothing, anyone could upload any image they want. Who knows maybe he is a cop. What's important is that another fake has been nuked.

 

Where exactly is the 'Irony' emoticon here.... I can't seem to find it for those that take everything literal.

 

irony;

c. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.

2. an instance of this, used to draw attention to some incongruity or irrationality

 

The fact that you thought my bringing attention to this bit of irony as a "No Joe .....Say it ain't so" moment and not being aware that "anyone could upload any image they want" was a waste of 1's and 0's just as my posting the definition of irony - for we all know that you are far more intelligent to not have known that. Aren't you?

 

 

[wdrob]

Yeah I got in touch with the guy and he has pulled them.

 

the seller did NOT pull them. those of us reporting them got them removed..

 

Based on his statement backing that it would seem so, yet in the email between us on eBay the following would lead one to believe what I stated: "glad that several people brought it to my attention and they have been removed".

 

Btw Mac; Your picture that you requested to be removed has been removed.

 

 

 

 

 

[mac3330-migration]

I know about counterfeit bills but never considered someone could counterfeit coins. How do they come by the dies, it seems that the time alone would not be worth the effort.

Well As you saw that dollar coin was up to over $12,000 and you got a private offer if $15,000. Well once you do to all the time and effort of creating those dies, even in a slow press you can crank out 30 of those "$12,000" coins per minute. that's $360,000 per minute or $21M an hour. That's a living wage and just compensation for the time and effort put into making the dies.

 

Conder101, that logic only applies if the person making them is also the same one that is selling them. I was so confused by all this I took it to a friend who does know more about coins than I do. When he examined it under a big magnify glass he pointed out that the entire coin looked like a double strike. He showed me that my other coin is real. That is why I broke it out of the plastic I wanted to be able to touch the coin and look at it closer. It even weighs one ounce but what really gave away that it was a fake to me was it was thicker than another Morgan. It almost looked like a clad from the side view. So the person who is making them, what are they making I wonder? You can't have one person selling the same coin over and over that would bring immediate suspicion upon them. Thanks for the input...Mac

[mac3330-migration]

WDROB thanks....Mac

[Conder101]

It even weighs one ounce

That's enough to condemn it right there, too heavy. Morgan dollars don't weigh an ounce they weigh 26.73 grams +/- .093 grams One that weighs even one standard oz is WAY out of spec.

 

And other than some insufficiently_thoughtful_person trying to pass off fake note he made on his color copier, counterfeit paper money is rarely done by just one person. At least good stuff. You've got the specialists making the plates, the guys running the presses, and you've got the passers sometimes more then one layer of passer. Same thing with these fake coins. most of them come from China. There are websites where you can go and buy coins like you had, already in the fake slabs for a couple hundred dollars apiece. And they produce a wide selection of rare coins for you to chose from. There are lots of unscrupulous people in this country ordering from these websites and then selling at coin shows all across the country and on ebay. and since they have a variety of items it is easier to avoid getting noticed.

 

If you are smart it is even easier to avoid being noticed if you avoid the really high end stuff and concentrate on the stuff that just nets you a few hundred per sale. Go to a show sell a half a dozen items spread among multiple dealers and leave. You can often hit two or sometimes three shows a week. There are lots of shows and lots of dealers. Just keep moving and keep your product line varied. Sure now maybe you are only pulling down $3K or so a week ($150K a year), but most of it is profit and you can probably keep it up for years. The key is don't get greedy and attract attention to yourself. And if you have the ability to create the dies this IS potentially something a single person could pull off. Easier though just to buy the Chinese fakes wholesale. The wholesalers are using the "don't be greedy model" They are makeing coins supposedly worth thousands of dollars apiece and selling them fo just a hundred or two, but their cost is just from a dollar to maybe thirty dollars per coin, but with all the "passers" in the States they are selling thousands of them.

[mac3330-migration]

wow Mom was right you learn something new every day. Didn't know I would get such an education on coins. I am better off picking them out of circulation is would seem. Mac