1933 $10 Indian MS-66 ?????????????........

[reid1836]

I just noticed an advertisement in CW for a 1933 $10 Indian graded by NGC as MS-66. A step above gem and a notch below superb gem. Are they serious ?

From the black and white photo even I a lowly novice can detect several bag marks. Thats right, I said several bag marks in prime focal areas no less ! Not to mention what must certainly be weakness of strike in the hair and feather details. Because, otherwise it would be considered wear and a circulated coin. This particular coin is touted to be the pinnacle of this date, top pop, the very best with none better. I would have expected NGC to be a bit more on the conservative side, especially on such a high profile coin. I would like to pose these questions to those in the forum that have access to CW. Would you consider this coin to be correctly graded ? What if it were only a common date $10 Indian ?

What grade do you think it deserves ? If you purchased this coin would you be happy with the coin you received ? Granted only the obverse is shown !

[Tradedollarnut]

There is much more than bagmarks to grading. A few ticks here and there are forgiven if the luster is outstanding and the surfaces original - especially on gold. The coins are so heavy and the metal so soft that they pick up marks like magnets pick up iron filings!

[EVillageProwler]

Actually, for that series, luster is actually considered a greater component of the coin's grade than marks.

 

One comment I would like to add, and is not meant to be facetious or obnoxious:

 

How many marks does a coin like that have to have (in either prime or non-prime focal areas) for it to go down to a 65? Is the answer 3 prime and 7 non-prime? And, cite reference for your answer.

 

I say this to try to illustrate why it's not a great idea to count the hits to decide how a coin should grade out. Look at the whole coin, look at every aspect. Then, come up with a grade.

 

EVP

[Tradedollarnut]

Grading by a blurry Coin World picture is almost as bad as trying to grade by a LegendSteve image!

[gmarguli]

Grading by a blurry Coin World picture is almost as bad as trying to grade by a LegendSteve image!

 

 

[jom]

Grading by a blurry Coin World picture is almost as bad as trying to grade by a LegendSteve image!

 

Yeah, that guy take HORRIBLE pictures. Deceptive too...

 

jom

[EVillageProwler]

 

On a serious note, I just saw the image in CW. That's a sizable blow-up of the coin, and any small marks get accentuated. It's important to look at the coin in-hand and under proper lighting conditions before concluding that a coin is (or is not) properly graded.

 

I remember the big debate over the grade of the '33 Saint. Many decried the assigned grade by looking at a blown up image of the coin. A few dealers who've seen the coin up close and in person told me that the grade's fine. The luster is full and fresh, and that "big" hit on the obv isn't as bad as the pic made it seem.

 

EVP

[Tradedollarnut]

I remember the big debate over the grade of the '33 Saint. Many decried the assigned grade by looking at a blown up image of the coin. A few dealers who've seen the coin up close and in person told me that the grade's fine. The luster is full and fresh, and that "big" hit on the obv isn't as bad as the pic made it seem.

 

Yup. The more you learn to grade the way the services do, the more that 'grade' makes sense.

[EVillageProwler]

The more you learn to grade the way the services do, the more that 'grade' makes sense.

 

Or... you can pay someone to tell you the grades of the WS of Grading Final Exam the night before and pretend to get a few wrong so the cheating isn't obvious.

 

 

Did I just write that?

 

 

EVP

[Tradedollarnut]

I'm actually embarrassed at how I did. I was way too high on too many coins. Every coin I gave the benefit of the doubt as a liner ended up being the lower grade.

 

Was definitely in too giving of a mood that day!

[EVillageProwler]

Can't even cheat properly. What a maroon!

[Tradedollarnut]

Nah - I think my problem was that I looked at auction lot viewing one too many times....

[jtryka]

I've not seen the coin in question, but in my experience, marks on gold coins, even tiny ones that are not noticable to the naked eye look like huge marks in photos. That exaggeration of small marks makes it extremely difficult to grade higher grade gold based on photos alone. Also, for rarer dates, it seems the services tend also to be a bit more generous than on common dates, it may only be 1/2 a point to a point, but even a fraction of a point may be enough to bump it to the next grade.