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Outcome of Jefferson Grade Guess

8 posts in this topic

Hi everyone! Thanks for all the "gradestimates" and really appreciate all the positive thinkers out there!


However, here's the story. This coin was from a Heritage auction. There was no listing info from them concerning the DDR nor was it on the ICG slab. It looked as if it might make FS so I took the chance and bid/won it.


After receiving it, I contacted Ray Overby for his opinion as I thought it might cross to a 65FS thus an up-grade for his reg set. I sent it to him and he agreed. It did have some carbon spots so Ray dipped it before submitting.


This is what it came back as:



Ray was not at all happy with this, so he sent it back for a presidential review. This time, it came back---



---along with this letter from DH.



Since the "high point rub" is as struck, we were both exasperated with this result, so we decided to forego further submitting, as we both felt it would do no good. Ray gave me a suggestion for giving it some tone, and that is what I'm doing with it now. Should it develop some color, it will be re-submitted.


Of course, we were both happy to see the FS given, but neither of us could understand the PR from DH. He does not know how to grade Jeffs, and to suggest it be AU is rediculous!!!!!!


Leo, thank you for your critique and is accurate considering the detail of my pics. However, many of the circled areas showing "issues" were either a trick of my lighting or invisible without a loupe. Example: There are no fingerprints on the upper right reverse. It's a polished area from strike as is the forehead and dome. And the only obv nick is to the upper jaw, the collar is extremely clean, and the only rev hit that could be seen without a loupe is in the field under the "S" of PLURIBUS. Ray showed this coin to many dealers for their "take" on grade and FS desig before submission, and it was unanimous for FS and probably MS65, certainly no lower then 64. I have Jeffs from PCGS and NGC in MS66 that have more marks and softer strike! Here's a better pic of the reverse.




The only carbon spot is centered between pillars 2 and 3. All other marks, are just that---marks, under 10X.


Everyone that guessed MS65FS or better, I sincerely appreciate the thought but I'd settle for 65.



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Jason, it got cracked out as soon as I received it back from Ray. As for what's next, I'll re-submit in Oct. after trying to get some color on it.


If it has "significant rub", in the eyes of PCGS, how can it still manage to be MS and "almost AU"?


Tom, the rub is in the eyes of DH himself---not the graders. They gave it a 64 but after a presidential review by Hall, he told the graders to put it in a 62. I think he thinks he was doing Ray a favor by keeping it in MS grade!


In effect, he was telling his graders they over-graded it by at least 3 points where Ray and I think he has undergraded it by 3 points. Who would you most likely agree with here considering the pics?



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If this has "significant high point rub" then he should have not graded it 62FS at all. So now we have a possible range of AU all the way through 64?!? What are they smoking over at PCGS? ..and where can I get some - lol! Seriously though, the reverse looks better than some of my 65s. If you're giving me a choice of 62FS or 64FS then I'd have to put my money on 64. Send it to NGC and see what they say.

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NGC is considerably more strict then PCGS when attributing full steps and I personally don't believe they would give it the FS. There is a minute gap in the 5th step under pillar 3. Without the FS attribute, there isn't any grade that would make the coin worth the purchase in the first place. This coin deserves to be in a MS65FS slab and sooner or later, I'll get it in one!


the reverse looks better than some of my 65s


And I too have some 65s and even a few 66s that aren't this nice! confused-smiley-013.gif

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